I've got a fantastic guest on the podcast – none other than my friend and incredible coach, Jill Coleman! She's the brains behind the Fitness Nutrition Business brand, JillFit. In this episode, get ready for an engaging discussion as we dive into the mistakes we both made as newbie coaches, all with the goal of helping you dodge those same stumbling blocks. Whether you're a new coach or considering entering the fitness industry, this episode is an absolute must-listen tailored just for you.
Find show notes at bicepsafterbabies.com/293
- Jill’s fitness background 05:14
- Why consistency is hard for many people 09:14
- First mistake: Giving clients strict meal plans 18:38
- Second mistake: Be a jack of all trades 31:20
- Third mistake: Having no boundaries 45:08
- Money mistakes: Pricing the program 50:45
- Jill’s biggest piece of advice 58:52
You're listening to Biceps After Babies Radio Episode 293.
Hello and welcome to Biceps After Babies Radio. A podcast for ladies who know that fitness is about so much more than pounds lost or PR's. It's about feeling confident in your skin and empowered in your life. I'm your host Amber Brueseke, a registered nurse, personal trainer, wife and mom of four. Each week my guests and I will excite and motivate you to take action in your own personal fitness as we talk about nutrition, exercise, mindset, personal development and executing life with conscious intention. If your goal is to look, feel and be strong and experience transformation from the inside out, you my friend are in the right place. Thank you for tuning in. Now, let's jump into today's episode.
Hey, hey, hey! Welcome back to another episode of Biceps After Babies Radio. I'm your host, Amber Brueseke, and today I have my friend Jill Coleman on the podcast and we're going to talk about mistakes, mistakes that both of us made as new coaches. Now look, if you are a new coach yourself or you're even thinking about branching out into the fitness industry and becoming a coach, chances are that you're going to make some mistakes. I know I did. I know Jill did, and we wanted to get together and have this conversation to: One, normalize the fact that it's not going to be perfect. Nothing you do is going to be perfect, and that's OK. It doesn't have to be perfect in order to be successful. And number two, I kind of hope by having this conversation with Jill, that will be able to prevent you from making some of the same mistakes that we made as we started out as beginning coaches. So, this podcast episode is a lot of fun. It's just fun to sit and chat with my friend and be able to share some of the wisdom that we've learned over the years, and I hope that you find immense value in it.
If you are a current coach or are an aspiring coach, I would invite you to listen to my brand-new secret podcast called Make Money; Change Lives, a Transformational Macro Coach Series. This is five special episodes that I recorded for coaches and aspiring coaches to really talk about how to be successful in this industry, how to really coach clients on a transformational level. We actually even talk about this concept a little bit in the podcast episode, and Jill makes the point that there is a difference between understanding nutrition, understanding the science and the craft, and being able to coach other people. And so in this podcast series, the five, these five episodes, I go deep into understanding how to get clients to be more compliant, how to get clients to actually make long term transformational change. We talked about this concept a lot in in this podcast episode. So again, if you are a current coach or you're an aspiring coach, meaning you felt that tug and maybe part of you is thinking maybe, maybe I could do that. I would invite you to come hop over and listen to my secret podcast. You can't find this anywhere else. You do have to opt in and then I will send you the podcast episodes. You can go to bicepsafterbabies.com/secret to be able to get access to that podcast. All right, without further ado, let's hop into the episode with Jill.
Amber B 03:13
All right, I have my good friend and boss babe Jill Coleman here. Jill, thanks for hanging out with me today.
Jill Coleman 03:21
Oh my gosh, I'm so excited and I'm actually really pumped about this topic too. You and I have had some good laughs before we turned the mic on so.
Amber B 03:27
That's right. So today, so Jill and I, OK, well, first of all, Jill, how long have you been in the fitness industry?
Jill Coleman 03:35
Since I was 16, so about 25 years. I've been in the fitness industry for 25 years and then I've been online teaching fitness and nutrition and then also now doing fitness business for 13 years full time.
Amber B 03:46
OK. So, Jill’s been around the block, a lot.
Jill Coleman 03:50
Yeah, a lot. I pretty much done everything there is to do in the fitness industry.
Amber B 03:52
In the fitness industry, right. And I started Biceps After Babies in 2016. So, I've been around the block a little bit too. And so, I'm really excited because today we're going to kind of go back into our past and we're going to talk about some of the dumb things that we did along the way.
Jill Coleman 04:07
Actually, you started in aerobics too, didn't you? I started teaching step aerobics when I was 16.
Amber B 04:11
Oh did you?
Jill Coleman 04:12
Ohh my gosh, I loved it. Also gonna start with like Jane Fonda and Reebok step. I was obsessed.
Amber B 04:18
Did you do like Tae Bo?
Jill Coleman 04:19
Amber B 04:19
Like, oh man I love that.
Jill Coleman 04:20
I was never certified, but I was like, I can learn this. You know, it was like also when Charlene Johnson was still read her book Kick, I was certified in that. Yeah, I still love Aerobics, if I could be like a sub, you know somewhere like once a month or something? I'd still do it.
Amber B 04:33
Yeah. No, I loved it. I loved teaching group fitness. It was super fun and the people I feel like the people in group fitness are like some of my favorite people, like.
Jill Coleman 04:40
Amber B 04:41
Right. It's just, it's like a fun community. So. Yes, we've been in the fitness center for a hot 2nd, so today we're going to be talking about some of the mistakes that we made along the way. And specifically as we started getting into coaching other people because there's a difference between being yourself on a fitness journey and then coaching somebody else through a fitness journey, there's a big difference there. And we made all of the mistakes so that you don't have to. So, we're going to talk about some of those mistakes today. OK, so you told me how long you been in the industry, Jill. If someone's just coming across you for the first time, give us a little background on you.
Jill Coleman 05:14
Sure. So yeah. I own a company called JillFit. And so I’m JillFit on all the socials, website all that stuff and I started. I got my masters, I got my undergrad in Exercise Science, where I master in Nutrition, and I spent my 20s just doing fitness competition. So, I was a figure competitor. I was doing fitness modeling and I was a full-time personal trainer and also running a university fitness center. I was steeped in the fitness industry. I remember at one point thinking I would go to PT school or PA School. Like, that's what a lot of people who had graduated went. And honestly, I was like, I can't abandon fitness. I'm just like a meat headed heart. I was like, I have no way to have to make money at this. My parents are like, are you a gym teacher? What? What's happening right now? And I was like, maybe, maybe I'll be a gym teacher like to me, I didn't care. I just loved fitness and I love to helping people. And so when I started personal training in my early 20s, really just seeing how I could push myself, that was a big thing, was like I started doing 5K's and 10K’s and half marathons. And that ended up being a fitness competitions. And that was the first time I sort of dived and dove into like the nutrition stuff and years later, I was someone who had a completely obsessive relationship with food and exercise. My late 20s I was constantly thinking about food, exercise my body, so insecure, which is sort of ironic, right? You think you get into fitness and you start feeling better about yourself. To me, it was definitely a bell shaped curve to the point where I started becoming obsessive. And I work with now a lot of women in our Moderation 365 nutrition curriculum on how to sort of unlearn a lot of these old food narratives. And so today we'll talk about some of the mistakes that I certainly made with myself, but mostly also with clients as well. And it wasn't until I started my business in 2010 that I really vowed to figure this out because I said, Jill, you can't afford if you want this business to be successful, you really can't afford to be at the gym three times a day, you know, doing 2-3 hours of cardio, constantly thinking about food. I mean, I'm talking 90% of a day. It felt like a full time job. So that's when enter sort of moderation, mindfulness and as someone who has previously really hardcore, it was really hard to just eat moderately. That was something that, like your grandma did, you know, it didn't feel hardcore enough, didn't feel good enough. But I also wanted to see this business successful, and I needed to give it my time and attention. So, after a couple of years of doing online business, I started as a blog. So, I was just sharing recipes and workouts and I definitely was not the smartest person. I nothing, you know, I didn't know the nutrition. You know, the biochemistry as well as other people, the hormones and all kind of stuff. But I was really good at one thing and that was being consistent. People would say, I check your blog before. And check my e-mail in the morning and so over the course of about two years, we grew up pretty loyal readership and then enter social media, Facebook business pages, Instagram, things like that. People started asking me how are you doing what you're doing? And so, in 2012, I started doing some light business coaching, teaching the blogging model and of course that has sort of evolved obviously over the last 10 years to be very different, but that's still my passion and that JillFit now we have a team that an executive team with five people, we have three additional coaches, we have a certification and we still do a little bit of fitness and nutrition. That's probably 1/4 of our revenue and the other 3/4 is now business coaching for Wellness professionals. So yeah, it's been a long road, but it's been obviously and you know this Amber. This is the most feeling thing. And just at the end of the day, seeing people have wins with health fitness, it just transfers into so many other areas of your life. And to me this is the most appealing thing we can do.
Amber B 08:37
Yeah. Amen. So true.
Jill Coleman 08:37
Yeah, it is.
Amber B 08:39
You said a really important word that I think it relates to the fitness industry. It relates to anybody who's having their own fitness journey and then also it relates to business and that is the word consistency. And you know that was like your secret sauce, is like when people ask you what your secret sauce is like super boring.
Jill Coleman 08:56
I don't die like, you know, like, you know, cockroaches like don't die. They can't kill them. Like, honestly. And that's been my superpower is I'm never like the smartest. And I have the biggest following, you know, all those kind of things. Nothing is really shiny about the business, but it's consistent and we have really strong brands and that's honestly been able to carry us all the way through these last 13 years.
Amber B 09:14
Why do you think that that is so hard for people? Why do you think consistency and we can talk in this in the business realm. But of course it relates to someone on a fitness journey. But why do you think consistency is so hard for so many people?
Jill Coleman 09:25
So I honestly think it's because and this is so similar to the fitness and nutrition stuff, and you know this working with clients and fitness and nutrition is that we want and I think this is the marketing honestly in our industry is that people are sort of sold this entertainment like, starting a new diet or doing a seven day detox or 21 day fast or whatever it is. These things are just, they're entertainment. It's kind of like entertainment for adults, it's like I need to start date and I need end date and I need you know something to work towards and I need to, like gamify all my numbers and I need to gamify all this stuff. And so, it gives us this massive dopamine head that we continue to chase. And this is my experience when I was competing, it was very much like extreme dieting where you go, I have a start date and then I have an end date. I'm working towards something. And then I would get off stage and proceed to just literally binge eat for months. And then I would think I have to get back to what I was doing before and I would go back. And do another show sign up for so my entire you know, nutrition and fitness journey had all of these deadlines and start dates and it was exciting. It's funny in research they actually show that people are more excited to start the diet before they've even started it.
Amber B 10:34
Yeah, I believe that.
Jill Coleman 10:35
Than they are actually doing it right. Like they're so excited to get their flipping lists. They got the tupperwares, we got the food list, we got the recipes like we're so excited we go get all the food, we make it and then we know this. You get a couple of weeks into a new diet and you sort of, you start looking around, things start to feel a little lackluster. And so, what I had to get right with and this is part of my moderation and mind on this journey was that my food is in here to entertain me like I love food and food is emotional and people say, oh, food is just fuel. It's like no food is delicious and like we should enjoy it. But it can't be front and center in your life if you have other things that you want to do and it's kind of the same thing with social media. So when I work with a new online coach or entrepreneur, helping them build their business, we start with social media only because that's where people are hanging out. And so getting them to post 4 times week, 5 times a week, 7 times a week even like it's not going to be exciting every second, it's not like you're going to post the same all that send have hundreds of followers and likes and comments. So, in a way, you have to almost inoculate yourself from this idea that there's that from now, have you ever been in Vegas where you know, like you pull the thing and I forget, like, what's it called like the.
Amber B 11:44
Jill Coleman 11:45
Yeah. Slot machine. Right. It's like, so you if you treat social media or a diet like a slot machine, let's see what's going to come out this time, you're chasing these dopamine heads, and so you have to almost just get your mind right with I don't even personally look at my likes. I have a phrase that I use for my clients called post and move, and it's basically like you gotta post and like post and just get on with your life and it also helps you overcome some of that perfectionism. You know those comparison tendencies to where especially at the beginning, you feel like all of these, this is the same thing with dieting. All of these tiny little action items feel so huge. They're like it's so granular. You know you. The way you're looking at it is like. All of these things matter, and you and I both know like if they're doing most things well most of the time they're going to get the results. But for whatever reason, we have this very all or nothing mentality when it comes to all, obviously, food and exercise. We also have this with business. And so I think if you're not getting that adrenaline rush every second you go well, what's the use, right? nothing's happening, kids see what's happening. That's why I love that. I’m sure you've seen that meme that has, like, the iceberg.
Amber B 12:50
Jill Coleman 12:50
And then you're like, this is the only part you see. You don't see everything under the surface. You'll see this massive iceberg under the surface. And that's really how business works. You don't know what's happening in your ecosystem. You don't know out of that the 12 likes that you got on a post, how many people saw it? How many people read it? How many people consumed it? How many, how you're growing your trust with your brand, with that one post, all you see is the 12 likes and you go well. This obviously isn't worth my time and it's the same thing with food nutrition. The effort people putting at the beginning isn't commensurate with the outcome. We go, and I've been counting macros for two weeks now. I've been resisting all the treats and I'm feeling deprived and I've only lost 2 lbs. And you're like, gosh, 2 lbs in two weeks is pretty good, right? When we think about it. But to them, it's not enough because the effort isn't commensurate with the outcome. And so you have to almost I think about it like pushing a boulder up a hill, same exact thing with fitness nutrition. And when you're pushing it up, the efforts not going to feel commensurate with the results, it's hard, you're pushing, pushing, pushing, but at some point you get over the hill. And then what happens on their side? Right. Gravity takes over and all of a sudden things are feeling a lot easier for the effort you're putting in. It's the same thing with business. Usually we see with our clients around like the 18 to 24-month mark is when stuff really starts lining up and you start getting opportunities and you're not fighting tooth and nail for every single like and follow and subscriber and client. Things start becoming a lot easier, but very few people ever get to that 18 to 24-month mark you know.
Amber B 14:16
Yeah, because you have to keep doing it even when you’re not getting the result.
Jill Coleman 14:18
Even not getting like moment-to-moment feedback, right? So in a way, I think if you can just know what's going to be boring. I actually saw this quote from Todd Herman a couple days ago. And he said people don't quit because it's hard. They quit because they think it's going to be easy and I love that because it's like it's not that it's hard. It's like you thought it would be a lot easier than it is. And so, if you can just get your mind right and going into any journey, whether it's a health journey or a business journey and go, you know what, I'm probably not going to see the fruits of my labor for 18 months and just and if it happens faster, awesome. Then you get to be excited and grateful versus every single day being like it's not happening fast enough. I've had people start with me in 2014, 2015, give up, come back in 2020 when the pandemic happened and say I wish I never stopped. I'm like, I wish you didn't stop either because you got much further along. Same thing with fitness and nutrition.
Amber B 15:10
Yeah, it's really good, super, super valuable. OK, so I want this conversation be more of a conversation, because I have some mistakes that I want to talk about. I know you have some mistakes that you want to talk about. And I know that we're gonna overlap on some of these as well, so both Jill and I have come up with a list of mistakes that we personally made as beginning, growing coaches that hopefully again, if you're listening to this and you are a coach, you can kind of prevent yourself from having to make maybe make the same mistakes that we made, and maybe get a little faster.
Jill Coleman 15:41
I love it. I would love to ask you first. I would love to ask you not to cut you off, but if we want it to be a discussion, I would like to ask you, did you, were you learning from anyone when you first got started? And did you have? Because that's, the thing is and I wasn’t learning from anyone. I was just going, like, trying stuff out. If you were just trying stuff out without having a mentor sort of looking over your shoulder, how did you have the confidence to just get started?
Amber B 16:04
So I didn't have anybody. I wish I you know going back, I wish that I had someone but I feel like I entered when it was kind of an emerging, macros was just kind of starting to come into general population, it had been in the bodybuilding industry for a really long time and it was just when I was. It was coming into general population and I think I'm just cocky enough to be like, I don't know. I can figure this out. You know? Again, looking back, I would have love to have somebody who is more of a mentor. I didn't hire my first mentor until let's see it was 2018, so I was two years into my business, you know that that two-year mark, I had grown it to where I was basically like I couldn't take anymore one-on-one clients myself and I needed to figure out how to make the leap from 1:1 coaching to like 1 to many coaching and so I hired my first business coach there. But yeah, I mean I think at some level there is a decision that has to be made that I'm just going to do this thing and I don't know how to do it. I'm not sure how I'm going to do it. I'm not sure what it's going to look like, but I was confident in my ability to figure it out and I think.
Jill Coleman 17:10
Yeah. See, that's the key. That's where I feel like a lot of people maybe second guess themselves. They go because that's the thing is you’re not suppose to know how to do this stuff, you know, like, always remind people like, look, you've never done before. Why would you ever think that you should be good at it? You think about learning a new language, you're learning a new musical instrument. There's no way you would ever expect to start playing the guitar and not mess up. Of course. Like that's part of the process, but for whatever reason, when it comes to coaching or nutrition, even, we just think we're supposed to be good at it. And so I love that you said, you know, I knew I wasn't going good right off the bat. But I was willing to figure it out. I had enough self-trust to figure it out. I think sometimes, like when I talk about the difference between people who end up being like really successful versus those who continue to sort of stay in this holding pattern. I really think it comes down to a level of self-trust. I don't know what's going to look like but I do trust myself to figure out the outcome. You know or work through it, no matter what it is.
Amber B 18:03
Yeah, that's really, really, really powerful. OK, so let's start with your first mistake that you made. And I think it relates well into like how you did fitness before entering the coaching world? So, what is your first mistake?
Jill Coleman 18:20
Yeah. So my first mistake and I, this is just for online coaching. So, this is for virtual coaching. Was because I definitely use a lot of personal training mistakes. When I was asking so many people throw up and stuff like that like super sore. Like they never came back and I'm thinking I gave him a good workout. I'm like, wow. They really got their money's worth, they never came back.
Amber B 18:38
Jill Coleman 18:38
Understandably, the first thing was giving clients strict meal plans and food lists and I did this primarily because this is what “had worked for me” as a competitor. I remember having a client who was like I just, you know, I can't, like eat this. I can't eat eggs or something and I was like, what do you mean? Just it's on the sheet. Just eat it, right? Just like that. Just like what's so what's hard about it? Just eat what's on the sheet. I didn't understand. And so, I am embarrassed to say that the reason that I kind of came to the conclusion that this was a “mistake” was because I couldn't stand my own meal plans anymore. And I was like, wow, I'm giving people these strict meal plans and food lists that I can't even stay on. I can't even stand my own food plan, my own meal plan. And so, I realized that there's more to it than just looking at the piece of paper and following along. And that's, you know, where I dealt with a lot of like the hormonal stuff and a lot of the energy and hunger and cravings and biofeedback and lifestyle and schedules. You know, and at the same time I was a 29 year old woman with no kids, you know, and I'm trying to tell this to women who are in their 50s with four kids. You know, it's a completely different mindset. And so yeah, it's as embarrassing as it is. I'm really grateful for this lesson because it showed me it really was perpetuating and the reason I think it was a mistake is because it was perpetuating this all or nothing way of doing things. So, if they didn't eat or they ate a “off plan”, they felt like a failure. And they ended up binging or overeating as a result of that, and they would beat themselves up. And this is my experience. And so, this was when and it was a couple of years in JillFit that I was like, OK, I really have to figure this out. This is not working for my clients. They're falling off. They're not staying compliant. And also I'm not. And it's embarrassing to say that it not working for me was really what I needed to have happened to realize that I was doing a massive disservice to my clients and I couldn't continue to do nutrition coaching that way.
Amber B 20:32
Yeah, that's super huge and I think the hard part about that is it's what a lot of clients want. What, like what they're like shopping for is they like they want a meal plan. They want someone to tell them what to eat. They want a workout plan that they just don't have to think about.
Jill Coleman 20:48
Well it makes sense, right? Like, how many times you've had someone say to you, just tell me to eat and I’ll eat it.
Amber B 20:51
Just tell me what to do.
Jill Coleman 20:53
Right. Just tell me what to eat and I’ll eat it. So I'm interested for you like, why do you think it doesn't work? I mean it makes sense if you think about it logically. You're like. Yes, here’s the full list, just eat off this list. It doesn't seem hard and that's why I think a lot of clients ask for meal plans cause you go, just tell me what to eat and I’ll eat it. Why do you think this doesn't work?
Amber B 21:11
Well, I think it's a difference between something being simple and easy, and I think it falls into that category. But it's very simple and just because it's simple doesn't mean it's actually easy to execute. And I think you know you talked about a whole lot of factors that come into play, you know, age and time and kids and money and all those things. Obviously, those are factors, but I think really where it gets into struggles with people is some of that like self-sabotaging behavior that tends to show up for people, that all or nothing thinking, that like I'm so hungry and I end up binging, I can't hold on anymore like white knuckling only works for so long. You know, one of the mistakes that I as I was reflecting on mine is kind of similar to this but it was I thought if I just taught somebody what to do then they would do it. I just taught them how to eat they would eat that way if I taught them why it was so important for them to have enough fiber, they would eat that way. If I taught them why you know they needed to stay in a deficit and you know whatever that it would if I, if I educated well enough, it was this, this fallacy, that if I educated my clients well enough, then their behavior would change. And I saw it time and time again that I could educate somebody they could understand exactly why it was so beneficial. And they still wouldn't do it.
Jill Coleman 22:23
Right and it's funny because you think about that like, people know what to do. Well, if you like, for the most part, they know that like they probably shouldn't be eating a pint of ice cream. Yeah, and yet we still do it. Yeah. So what is the difference? I mean, if you explain the why that someone it should have like a light bulb moment like, oh, OK, that makes sense. What's the difference between knowing and doing?
Amber B 22:44
Yeah. And I think this is where it really gets down to the difference between a good coach and a not good, coach. Maybe, we'll see an experienced coach and a not experienced coach. Because I think a lot of inexperienced coaches, when they see that what they do is they turn and put the blame on the client and they say, well, you're not committed enough. Well, you're not, you're not, you're not doing what I said to do. Like you, you, you know non-compliant clients is like one of my least favorite things that that coaches talk about is like, well, that's just a non-compliant client like they're just not doing what they're supposed to do. And I think that's so dismissive of the deeper struggles that a lot of people have when it comes to food, their bodies, their body image, their inner self talk. I mean we are grown up in this world of, you know, thinner is better and restriction is the way to go. And you know, not you can't, can't eat sugar because it's the devil. And it just I think it sets a lot of women up for not being successful in the long run because we have such that programming that is so deep into so many women psyches about what they should look like, what they should eat, what they're supposed to do and it really makes them struggle when it comes to execution of that.
Jill Coleman 24:00
Totally. Yeah. And then and then keep on top of that, the guilt of not being able to do it right. I should be able to. I can't believe I did it again, you know, and not to mention the fragility. So, we'll just go to food list and meal plans and look if you've ever done a meal plan and food list and it's worked for you. I think there can be benefits with giving people ideas. Right. If someone's like, I know I need to get more protein. I'm not really sure. And you give them a food list of, like, hey, these are all of the kinds of proteins like pick some that you like on from this list right so I think it's OK to give someone ideas, but I think what ends up happening is because it's a meal plan or it's a like it feels like a very specific way of doing things. Again, back to the all or nothing mindset, if we can't do it perfectly, then we make it mean that, you know, we're completely off and then. But the fragility of it is, what if I go to, I don't know, my kids’ friend's birthday party. And there's no, nothing at that party that that's on my food list.
Amber B 24:58
There’s no eggs at the party. And I'm supposed to eat eggs.
Jill Coleman 24:59
There's no eggs, there's no organic broccoli, right? So then you go, OK, what am I supposed to do to your earlier point you just white knuckle it all the way through the party. Or do you learn to think for yourself and go, OK, I don't have my food list with me, these foods aren't here, to me that's what I see a lot in the dieting industry specifically, is just this fragility and not being able to go outside of their own kitchen. You know to be able to figure out what to be eating and so a lot of the education we do at Mod 365 is really helping people become independent thinkers around their body, their schedule, their preferences, their psychological sensitivities, but that's a lot harder, right, than giving someone a food list.
Amber B 25:40
And and not nearly as sexy and not what most people are going around saying, this is what I want.
Jill Coleman 25:46
I want to lose 20 pounds. I'm like, great. Let's talk about biofeedback. Let's talk about mindfulness. They're like, what? Just tell me what to eat.
Amber B 25:51
Yeah, but that's not I want to eat, yeah. It's so hard and I think I am curious how you have been able to market to something that people need but don't necessarily know that they want. You know what I mean?
Jill Coleman 26:08
So actually, yeah, I mean. You know what's funny is they actually do want it at this point, they want it, right?
Amber B 26:13
So they've gone so far, so many struggles.
Jill Coleman 26:14
Yeah. And so we don't mark it. So our curriculum is moderation, mindfulness, abundance around food, things like that, you know, self trust me. I guess the closest thing you could compare to maybe intuitive eating. And intuitively I feel like has gotten a bad rap because it feels really again back to simple but not easy where people just say, well, eat until you're, you know, eat your full. And then I mean eat when you're hungry. Stop when you're full and to me that's really just so belittling to all the many food narratives right that we have going on their head. And so when I market it, it's not necessarily sexy, but it is true, which is if you think about food and you have a food obsession, you have an ongoing mental calculation and you're constantly thinking about your body and counting and measuring and look, I know that macros can work for some people and they do great with and they don't obsessed with it and whatever, and I know you always say it's one tool. The tool belt, which I really appreciate and for some people it is, the people we work with, we don't work with those people if they're off and running and they're great and they're doing awesome with their numbers, they don't need us, but we notice was a lot of people getting to the point where they were becoming neurotic about numbers. And they were just like, I may just give up and give in and just, like, throw my hands in the air, cause I just want to be able to eat healthy forever and not think about it. So really what we help people do is just automate their nutrition and again, it's not sexy. One of the pieces of feedback we always get from people is I'm just not thinking about it nearly as much as I used to, and it feels just orienting because I'm used to this constant thinking about it spending time.
Amber B 27:53
Jill Coleman 27:53
Yeah. So they're like, is it? OK, I'm not like because we equate like thinking about it more with effectiveness or we think we equate effort with effectiveness like I need to be thinking about it more need to be doing more in actuality if you learn some of this biofeedback stuff and things like that. So really we speak to their current pain point and problem right for the marketer head on. We speak to the current pain point and problem which is I have this complete mental over obsession with food. I think about it way too much and I'm just ready to give up. And we also don't market it as weight loss, so we don't. If someone comes in and says, hey, I have a massive weight loss goal, we, well like you need to do your numbers you know like at some point you need to know numbers. This is for someone who's probably already exhausted all of those. So we actually don't work with people who are like beginners to nutrition like you just need to work with a coach who has like general Nutrition knowledge, right, like learn about food. We work with people who are like way past that and to the point where they almost know too much and they're always second guess themselves. And they have this really fragile relationship with food. And so that's what we. So I mean, it's not everybody, but it's a certain it's certainly a slice of the population that really needs something like this.
Amber B 28:58
Yeah, and if you're a coach and you're listening to this conversation. Cause this is like you should be pulling some stuff out of this conversation and that is that Jill has gotten very specific on who her avatar is. Right. Did you hear her say all the people? it's not. And I think this is a mistake that a lot of beginning coaches make is they feel like they have to serve everybody and anybody who's willing to give them money. I did this where I was like you have any goal and you want any fitness thing. Sure, I'll do it. I'll work with anybody at any point. And it comes from that scarcity mindset of, like, if I don't work with this person, they're like who am I gonna, who's gonna pay me? But if you notice, Jill has gotten really clear on who it is that she serves with that product and who she doesn't serve. And I think if you're a new coach, that is one of the best ways that you can start to gain more clients is become known for like exactly who I serve and exactly who I don't serve.
Jill Coleman 29:50
Totally. Oh my gosh, it's so good, you know, and I also will say we turn away a lot of people. And this is just goes to an example of what you're talking about. Some because when we talk about moderation and mindfulness, it sounds really amazing. And it is amazing. And it sounds really like I would love that. I would love to just not think about food and just be able to still be fit and healthy, right. So I think that's the biggest for us anyway. That's the biggest thing is people go well. I'm just, I'm just going to gain 50lbs if I start eating everything I want, you know, and I'm like, well, yeah, but also eating everything you want and that obsessively binging manners, also food obsession. Right. So instead we sort of cut to the middle, we call it navigating the middle. But people will say to me, I really want to do this. But I still, like, need to count macros. And I'm like, cool, you're not ready. Right.
Amber B 30:34
Are you there yet?
Jill Coleman 30:35
Go count macros, like to me, I'm like, but it's not both, so it's like if you still need to on some level know your numbers and whatever, then cool. We're here when you're ready. Right? Like if you ever want to take this next step or here. But otherwise, if it’s something’s working for you, don’t worry about it.
Amber B 30:50
How do you get to that place? And I'm asking this question because I know there's a lot of people who are probably listening to this or where I was, where it's like. But then I'm not gonna make money. Like I'm letting a client walk out the door who's, like, willing to pay me money. And as a new coach, you're wanting to make money, like we're that's part of we want to help people, but want to get paid in the process. So how did you get yourself to the point where you're OK having somebody literally come in and be like Jill, I want to give you money. And you being like you're not, you're not right. You're not right for this program, how do you get out of that scarcity mindset?
Jill Coleman 31:20
Well, I mean, I think going back to mistakes, a mistake that I certainly made same as you was, I was a jack of all trades. Yeah, I was and I thought it was a benefit to be honest, it wasn't for me. It wasn't even out of scarcity. It was just more like I want to help everybody and like I can, I can help everybody. And that's the thing. If you were a personal trainer and person like I was or a good fitness instructor and you work with a lot of different kind of people in person. You come online and they're like well I work with a person like that in person, so I could probably work with them online and I would say the first six months of starting your online coaching business is probably the most confusing from like a niche perspective because you have all these different pockets of people who you could help. And you know this Amber. And we talked a lot about this in our mastermind with James Wedmore is this idea of specificity, and it seems like a it almost feels counterintuitive as if I get more specific then I'm actually going to turn more people away, but in my experience, that's when actually start getting a lot of clients. When you start getting a lot of clients is when you start really nailing the specificity of who you help, and I can't explain it. Maybe it's just Internet marketing Juju, Jedi mind trick I don't know, but people connect and I really think it works on exclusivity. We talk about urgency scarcity, some of these marketing prompts. I really think it works on exclusivity. So for example if I was like, oh, Amber's a nutrition coach, maybe someone be interested. But I've said, hey, Amber is the absolute best at helping people learn macros, implement macros in a way that's sustainable. They're like, oh, OK, yeah. Then it's like it's definitely a yes for them. And so even if someone's, like, I don't want to do macros, they'll now know that you're the go to macro coach. And so, you know, and also I just made a lot of mistakes with wrong clients. I mean, let's just be real. Bring in the wrong person saying yes when I probably should have said no. It ends up with mismanaged expectations, refund requests, noncompliance like you know and just bad vibes. You know, frankly.
Amber B 33:19
Yeah, it's not fun. It’s not from a program creators.
Jill Coleman 33:22
For eager people, right? It's and it's mostly the service to that client.
Amber B 33:28
Yeah, I think, where it really comes down to is people want the best. And people know that you can't be the best at everything. And so if you're trying to go out there saying, well, I'm the best at everything at every age, at every like situation at every tool, I'm the best at all of them. People like. Yeah, no, that's not actually true. But if you're saying I'm the best for this one specific scenario. Then people are like, oh, that's me. And she's the best. Like, that's who she specializes in. She must be really good at that. That that one thing and. So I think you're right, it is really, the antithesis of what you would think it would be that as you niche down as you limit who you work with, you would think that you work with less people, but the opposite tends to happen as you attract or those people and you become the go to for that once niche.
Jill Coleman 34:04
Yeah, for sure. And that's when your brand really starts taking off as a coach, right? It's becoming that we. So I teach like a one word association. Like what's the one-word association.
Amber B 34:16
That you want people to.
Jill Coleman 34:17
That you want people to think about. And that's how referrals work, too. If someone said to me, hey, looking for you know, really want someone to help me with my website. I'd be like, OK, here's 10 people. What if someone says I have a Kajabi website and I really need someone to do it? I'm like, oh, I know the exact right person because that person has said yes, I can build websites, but I actually build websites on Kajabi all of a sudden she's my go to resource for that one thing. And so you want to think about it. It's counterintuitive. But yeah, that's massive and also you know so as you guys are thinking about this, if you're listening to this and you are a newer coach. You know, think about, I think I honestly would go back to what has worked for you also to like what's your journey. You know, obviously, Amber you your journey was like macros is a huge piece of your journey. And for me the moderation of mind. So it made sense that then we mastered that, brought a lot of people through that curriculum including ourselves. Like you know, then proved the system, approved the model and then create a certification out of it, right? And so I mean think about for you what has really helped you and then reverse engineer that process. If someone said to me like. Oh, you know I want to learn how to eat moderately, I have to go back and be like how did I teach myself how to do that? What were some of the tools, strategies, actual tactics versus just saying, you know, eat when you're hungry, stop when you're full, which is a nice sound bite it just doesn't mean anything.
Amber B 35:37
Right. I think you nailed something that I am always helping like coaches and I wish I would have done earlier in my journey helping my coaches to realize is the faster you can like you said, reverse engineer how you got here. What were the steps that you had to take to be able to be successful and go back and figure that out. And then like you said, teach it to other people, see if it translates it worked for you. See if it translates to teaching other people have that proof of concept and then be able to expand from there. But for a lot of people that which comes easy to us. We tend to not value and we tend to also not know exactly how we did it, so asking your yourself to go back, how did they do this? What were the steps? What was the first thing I did? What was the second thing I did? that's gonna make you a better teacher and it's gonna make you a better coach.
Jill Coleman 36:21
Totally. You have to put yourself back in that headspace too, and then also to your point, when you start working with clients, too, now you're getting the language down, you're starting to see, like, you know, so just beta test your methods first, you know, take on a handful of clients and beta test your methods and then I love working, especially if you're trying to work out a system or work out a tool or something. Working with people one-on-one is awesome because you can always troubleshoot things on the fly, or you can just pivot. It's not like you're creating a course where like you're ready pre recorded videos or something like that. It's like you can make changes on the fly. There are a lot of things which kind of goes to my next mistake which is one of the things that I did very early on was I just gave way too much information like to your point about teaching, for me it was just like here's a bunch of stuff. And I understand this as a coach, especially if you are a business owner, and you have a product or service. You want your clients and customers to feel massive value like, Oh my God, I'm getting the most value but value doesn't always equate to stuff. So for me, I'd be like, here's, you know, 25 educational videos. And here's a 50 page PDF. And here's you know and we're going to do check-in calls each week, and then you're going to update this form every day, and then you have there's a check in thread in the Facebook group. And so from that perspective, when you're putting together, whether it's a coaching package or coaching course or a group coaching program, really, in my experience, take everything that you want to include in that container. And like, cut it in half and cut it in half again.
Amber B 37:56
Yeah, it's a good advice.
Jill Coleman 37:57
Sometimes we want to teach everything and we're like but, they need to know about fasting and means, you know about carb cycling and then you know and like we start adding on all these additional tiny little dial movers because we want it to feel valuable. And what ends up happening in my experience was so many of my clients were extremely overwhelmed and like, not even overwhelmed like weeks into the program like the first week. And as soon as we know this, as soon as clients start to feel overwhelmed, they disengage. They disengage the process, they blame themselves, they say I'm not good enough. I don't have the time management skills. I don't want it enough and they start blaming themselves. Sometimes they blame, you know, the coach or whatever. But for the most part, they start blaming themselves and then it sort of starts to shame spiral. And then it can end up in like refund requests. And, you know, just. I don't know bad vibes and then they leave and they go. I never didn't get anything out of that. And so in my experience, and this is also sort of a business lesson like I've only ever had one person in my entire career, say that they didn't have enough stuff. One person was like, OK, what else? Everyone else always says I feel so behind, so I'm not keeping up. Right? I'm just embarrassed to be on the calls because I don't know where we are in the curriculum. Right? Like stuff like that. And so then we then it becomes a self-worth thing where it's like I'm not worthy to even be part of this. This is where we see clients ghost. It's not because you necessarily said something or they don't like you. It's because they are embarrassed. And they have shame because they have not been following whatever plan you're asking them to follow. And so then you have to look at not innocent massive pet peeve for me and I'd be interested in your take on this in coaching, which is, you know, the person doesn't want it enough or you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. And I'm like, I make them drink. If you put things in place to get them excited, to stay engaged in the program. So what does that look like? You know, obviously you can have a lot of conversations before you get into the coaching relationship, small things that you wouldn't even think of like what's the best way to communicate? Do you like e-mail? Do you like text message? Do you want to be on lokser? You know Facebook group like asking your client the way in which it's easier for them to be in contact with you. Because if you do things via e-mail and then like they don't really do e-mail or gets lost in there or whatever, they are going to fall off. So like from a logistical perspective. And then also always telling them back to our very first conversation in this podcast, which is at some point, you're gonna get disillusioned. At some point, you know, 2, 3, 4 weeks in, you're going to want to disengage. That's just going to happen. That's not because you are weak or it's not a character flaw. It is just what happens when we start something new. So here's our the pact we're going to make. If you start to feel yourself disengaging, don't judge it. I know you're going to judge it, instead we have like a safe word, like when I coach people have like a safe word. Like it's almost like it's almost like a lifeboat like say it's one word and I'll know where your head is at. There's no judgment about it because we want the same thing. We want you to be successful. And so you have to have a lot of these conversations ahead of time. So that when they do inevitably happen, the person doesn't blame themselves. And then you don't blame yourself, you just go cool. We have to figure out a way, and if you're constantly having clients ghost you or fall off, it's time to look at your own system. It's not about the client, just not wanting it enough. And so I would say I definitely overwhelmed a good amount of people early on. Then I really learned that less is more. And I've never had anyone say that it wasn't worth the money.
Amber B 41:27
That's so good. I think to this conversation, this idea, I hear this a lot with coaches like you can't lead a horse to water or you can lead a horse water you can't make them drink.
Jill Coleman 41:36
Make them drink.
Amber B 41:37
Right. And and I think,
Jill Coleman 41:40
You can make them very thirsty.
Amber B 41:41
I think it’s a little bit of a cop out, right? It's like, yeah, I can't, like, force the horse to drink, but I can make it as easy as possible for the horse to drink. I can encourage the horse and make them want to drink like there's a lot that you can do as a client or as a coach for your client.
Jill Coleman 41:52
Amber B 41:52
I always tell my coaches that you're not responsible for your clients, but you are responsible to your clients. And having that boundary is a really important thing, because I do think especially a lot of new coaches. Well, not even sometimes they'll blame the client, but a lot of times when they get really hard on themselves, as if their client isn't successful, well, now I'm a terrible, awful coach and I shouldn't, you know, nobody's going to trust me. And they kind of get in this head spin. The sales spin of who might even be doing this that a little bit that impostor syndrome. And so recognizing I love what you said. Because you give some really tactile things that people can do to increase the likelihood that your client is going to push through that hard point. Linking arms with your client as you did in in the way that you like. We both want the same thing like we're going to get through this together, linking arms with your client instead of I feel like what a lot of new coaches do, which is they lead their horse like they walk in front of their horse and kind of drag them along instead of linking arms with them and saying, hey, we want the same thing, how are we gonna make this work? What is this gonna look like for you? How are you going to be most successful? How do you want to communicate and really working together to make it a success?
Jill Coleman 43:01
Totally, yeah. I mean and James always says this too is like that if you want to make it, if you want people to think you're smart, make it complicated. If you want people to really help people, make it simple. And so when you use the analogy of, like, pulling that horse along, I think we're so desperate to prove that we're worthy enough and that we're smart enough to be doing this right because we still have a little bit of fraud syndrome and things like that. So we sort of assume this teacher role all the time where it's like, I know and I need to make sure they know I'm an authority. Well, the best way they already hired you. They already think you're an authority. They would not have given you money if they didn't think that you had what it took to help them. So as soon as you're in that client coach relationship, relax into it and like you said, I love that phrase link arms because it really is it's like, hey, we're a team now. You don't have to constantly be proving that you're smart. They know you are. That's why they hired you. And so I think being able to relax into that relationship and really facilitate change. So I love that you said that you're they're not. You said they're,
Amber B 43:59
They’re responsible to them.
Jill Coleman 44:00
They’re responsible to them. So I say something similar which is don't take your clients results personally, but take them seriously. Because sometimes if we take them personally, we're like I'm not good, right and you start blaming yourself and all those things you mentioned, but take them seriously. Which means don't get emotional, right? It's not about you. It's about finding a solution for the client. So get clinical. Stay objective. Don't make it about I'm bad. I shouldn't be doing this. I'm a failure. I should just give up. Get clinical and go. Like OK, I've had you three clients in a row who have sort of fallen off around like week number 3, 4. Let me look at some things. Let me look at and don't judge yourself. Don't make it mean that you didn't know. Of course you didn't know you need this experience to know and then you start getting clinical and go what can I put in place to make drinking easier, right? To make the drinking the water easier for the client. And then to me that feels, I don't know. It just feels I get a lot of solace from that. Like, oh, there's a solution here. It doesn't need to be a pain. It can just be a puzzle to be figured out. And so, yeah, take your clients results seriously, but don't take them personally.
Amber B 45:08
Oh, that's good. I really like that. I don't know if you had the same experience, but when I was a new coach, I was convinced and I think this is part leads into what you were talking about earlier of just wanted to make sure you provide immense value and as if you provide more things for people that's going to make it more valuable and they're going to you know, Yeah, more stuff. But for me it came down to like providing more access to me is what I felt like was going to be more successful for my clients and so as a new coach I was terrible with boundaries. And I was like you know, text me 24/7 whenever you're like struggling like I so wanted to help my clients that I lacked all sorts of boundaries, and I remember very vividly, and I have 4 kids I remember very vividly sitting at the dinner table with my 4 kids and my husband and like pulling out my phone and feeling the pressure to like have to respond right now to a client because they texted me and they're gonna think I'm a terrible coach if I don't respond back to them and it's if anybody's listening, who's a beginning coach and is feeling that pole like it was, it was such a mistake for me to conflate my availability with the success of my clients or the value that I was offering somebody, and it took me a little while to figure out that when I was able to put boundaries and communicate them ahead of time and, you know, set up those expectations from the very get go that not only was I a better coach but it also allowed clients to be able to not become as reliant on me as often happened where it was like if they're texting me every day for six weeks. And then they're not. They're done with their six week package. It's like what have I done as a coach now to set them up for long term success and now they're hit a road bump and they're like, reach out to pull their cell phone to text me. And it's like, oh wait, I haven't, you know, I don't know how to do this on my own. So I think that was a huge mistake that I made and one that I if I could go back, I would have very get go set some really clear boundaries. For me, as a coach to be able to protect my life but also, because I realize now how beneficial it is for my clients.
Jill Coleman 47:16
Oh, it's so good. That was actually my third mistake was I didn't say it in terms of availability, but it was actually having no boundaries. And when I look back at this experience so I'll tell you the sort of story about how this sort of came about. We were doing one-on-one nutrition coaching. I had five coaches working for me early days of JillFit and this client of ours texted one of my coaches 73 times on a Sunday.
Amber B 47:39
Oh my gosh.
Jill Coleman 47:40
And my coach was like, I don't know what to do with her. It's like this is so much. And at first we were like, what's wrong with her? Right. Like, why is she being like, well, didn't she know how to live. And I was like, she doesn't. And it's our fault I had this moment of being like, wow, we literally have enabled this client. And this is like the client we facilitated this. And so I kind of think having no boundaries is selfish because you're making it about you. They can't do anything without me. They need my help all the time. And so from then on, what we did was we put the boundaries in place. Right. 9:00 to 5:00, Monday through Friday or, you know, Monday through Saturday or whatever it was, and what would happen was our clients would have this moment like they would go to the grocery store is like, 8:00 at night. And they didn't know, you know, well, this salsa has 25 milligrams of sodium, and this one has 10 milligrams, which one? And then I it dawned on me I was like, wow, we are making people dumber. I was literally like we are making people stupider. And that was a massive mistake in the business. And I had to take full responsibility for that, that people literally could not go to the grocery store and pick out a salsa without having to text us. But what happened was we get that text at 8:00. We would not answer it. We might even see it come in right not answer till the next morning at 9:00, when we had the boundary in place. And we'd be like, hey, I wanna check on them last night. How was it? Where do you end up getting and be like, oh, I just went ahead and got the one that had the 25 milligrams. It's fine. Like, I was like, awesome. And I'm like, debrief. Yeah, cool. Let's talk about what happened. Let's talk about what you did. Let's talk about how it and it's like the immediacy, right, the urgency of needing to talk to the coach had dissipated by the morning and they figured it out themselves and they survived. And having to show the evidence that they survived without having to text the coach all the time is valuable for them. And so I know you always say this too is like you're at some point you're they shouldn't need a coach, right? They should be able to graduate from coaching and be able to go out and do their own thing. And so if a client is extremely reliant on you realize that you're being selfish. And you're making it about you. You're making it. It's this almost. What's that word? It's like a codependency. It's like they need you. But, like, you're also needing something from them. I had a relationship coach years ago who said realize when people stay in relationships, whatever it is right to be romantic or otherwise, when people stay in relationships, no matter how bad they look. They both people are getting something out of it. So that's how I had to look at it was like, OK, when I'm really relying on my clients to need me that's an issue.
Amber B 50:14
Yeah, it's such a good point and I think a lot of coaches, I think a lot of beginning coaches especially because there is that imposter syndrome. Because there is that I have to prove to them I'm smart. I have to prove to them it's worth their investment, that we do things like this and what we're getting out of it is important, what we're getting out of it is like, oh, I am good enough. Oh, I, you know, I can do this and that is inherently selfish so.
Jill Coleman 50:35
Right. And then I get to be like, can you believe this client text me 73 times and I used to complain about it and I get to visualize myself as the victim. And I get to, you know, I get to blame and complain.
Amber B 50:45
Yeah, that's really, really good. I'm curious. So I feel like I've made lots of, like, money mistakes along the way. But one of my biggest mistakes was in terms of pricing and trying to figure out where to price my products. What suggestions do you give clients, your clients, when I know people come to you and are like, how do I price this program? I'm curious what tips you give to people on pricing?
Jill Coleman 51:11
You know, there's a lot of schools have taught on this. There's a lot of business coaches who are like double your rates like charge what you're worth. Which I think there is something to that but I also want to validate the fact that if you're a new coach, you're, you don't even feel comfortable saying some of these numbers on a sales call, you know so at the end of the day, I always have people charge what they feel comfortable charging in the beginning and that may not be, you know, the best business advice you ask these manifestation coaches or like. But here's the deal is when you're a beginner, it's so much more important to just get reps than it is to get to make $1,000,000. It just is. You don't know that you're good yet you don't have the self-efficacy quite yet. You don't have to show the evidence that you have gotten a lot of people results that you're actually a good coach. So for me, I'm fine with someone saying, hey, it's $100 a month or 150 bucks a month. It's $200 a month. Which in my estimation based on industry standards is sort of on the lower end but if that's what you feel comfortable with, then say that. You’ll know it's too cheap when you start to feel resentful, right? When you start to be like these people are paying me pennies, and I've certainly have clients who say stuff like that, like they're paying me pennies and they expect me and they have this and I'm like well, who's fault is that, right? Like you can increase the price. So graduating from the program.
Amber B 52:26
Increase the price.
Jill Coleman 52:26
Yeah, increase your price. And the cool thing about, especially with one-on-one coaching is you can just incrementally increase your price at the very next sales call you know, so you're not locked into like one specific package that you know everyone has to fit this package. It's like be prescriptive. If I'm talking my sales call with someone who wants to lose 100 pounds, we're going to pitch them a 12-week program right? Like you have to be prescriptive. And actually ask yourself, what is this client actually need? So I'm actually not a big fan of having like a very specific package with very specific pricing. I'm like, people need different things. Put your, you know, whatever your relationship cap on your human to human cap on and be like, how can I help this person and even can I even help this person? And if I am, what does that look like? What's that container look like? And then what do I need to be compensated in order to make that happen? so I don't, there's no hard and fast roll and this is again one of the things we're going to ask people to become independent thinkers, but don't ever feel shamed about starting what is considered fairly cheap in the industry because you can always increase from there.
Amber B 53:28
Yeah. So if I had a business coach like you when I started out I would have not made some of these mistakes. But I got caught up in the experts telling me that I needed to increase my price and double my prices and then double again and then double them again. And I for sure like ignored what my gut was saying in terms of pricing and was like, well, this is the expert, this is the person I hired. They must know what they're doing and I, you know, I got a really good lesson there of really getting out of. And I'm not saying that charging a lot of money is bad, but for me it got out of alignment. And I think that's kind of what you're speaking to is like you need to be in alignment with whatever price $100, a $1000, a $1,000,000. You need to be in alignment with what you're asking your client to charge. And I got out of alignment to where it was like I don't feel an alignment with what I'm charging people anymore. And I had this big wake up and realizing that I had been pushed and listened to outside voices instead of thinking for myself and asking myself what I thought, I what I felt comfortable charging what I thought it was worth, what I wanted to charge and that was a big wake up for me and we ended up cutting our prices significantly, changing the business model, changing how we were selling things and the business like really took off after that. And I don't think it necessarily is because I had a lower price model. I think that's a default. A lot of people, myself included tend to think is like, well, if I want more people to buy it, I'll just charge less. Again, that's it doesn't actually.
Jill Coleman 54:53
It's not like it's not a linear relationship.
Amber B 54:54
Yeah, it's kind of a little bass backwards as well, but for me it was like the realization that what was really important was that price alignment was like feeling an alignment that when I said something to the client, I was like 110% behind that price. I knew the value was present. I was, they were, they were. I was able to show up in the way I wanted to show up as a coach. I didn't feel resentful. That's a big cue. And and that was what was key for me. And so that was a big learning lesson of realizing that what was less important than the actual dollar amount was the alignment that I felt.
Jill Coleman 55:30
It also needs to be and I will say I am totally fine with people starting with what they feel comfortable with, but I will say as soon as you start getting some results for clients, you do need to increase your prices because remember when people pay, they pay attention too. I see a lot of newer coaches not charging a lot to give themselves an out right, so they go well if I don't get the results, you know, it's like it was only 100 bucks or you know what I mean? It's almost like I had this one client who kept doing free stuff like kept doing, kept putting out leave magnets and kept putting out freebies. And I was like, this is cool. Like you're giving a ton of value and you're building your list but we got when we like dove into it, it came to she didn't trust herself to get someone a result and she wanted to give herself an out and be off the hook if a person didn't get a result. So I think there's something to someone paying you money that feels uncomfortable for both of you. Right. So it's going to feel uncomfortable for them. They're definitely going to stick with it. And for you, it's uncomfortable. You're really going to show up and you're going to be like, alright, like you're going to stick with it and you're really going to go to the ends of the earth for that client. And I think there's value in that too. So I think it's OK to start with something that's comfortable but not too comfortable. I think it's at some point everyone needs to have skin in the game and including you to really show up and not give either one of you an out.
Amber B 56:43
That's really good. Yeah. When I. So my business coach literally had me double my prices and then double again and then double again. And I do remember after the first doubling because I probably was under charging, it actually felt really good. I showed up like you were saying, I showed up in a new way that relationship with my client felt more exciting. It felt like I was being well compensated. So I, as a coach, felt like I showed up in a in a different way. And I think you know what you're saying is clients often will show up in a different way as well. And so I definitely experience that I think there is this, this balance between charging what you're comfortable with, but continuing to push that level of comfort because then you get, you know, coaches who stay $100 a month for their entire coaching career and now you're undervaluing what you're offering as well. So it's like continue to push that that envelope of comfort.
Jill Coleman 57:35
Well, and the last thing I will say about this, too, and Amber you know this is, if you listen to this episode and you are a newer coach. And you're trying to learn also the business side of coaching, right? So you're trying to learn marketing and sales and you're doing social media and you're doing all these other things, your time is literally the most in demand that it's ever been right now, because before I was a lot of people who are maybe just a personal trainer at a gym and they're they go in, they train their clients, they go home and they don't do anything else. They have, you have time with their family. When they start learning Internet business and they start becoming business owner. Now all of a sudden the time you're spending coaching just went up because now your time is more in demand because you're layering on another 10 hours a week of business building and learning those skills. So you sort of have to account for that as well when you're now doing all the other things in your business, so remember that your coaching isn't your business, your coaching is your product. Yeah, right, your coaching is your product, so everything else in the business, you have to also now be doing if you want to be an entrepreneur, you want to be a business owner and so the time that you are in the business coaching right versus working on the business or working in the business coaching that needs to be compensated accordingly.
Amber B 58:52
Yeah, that's really good. That understanding the difference between being a coach and being a marketer, and if you are owning an online business, you have to wear both hats and kind of exchange them in and out. The time you're spent wearing a coach hat means you can't be a marketer, and the time you spent marrying a marketer hat means you can't be a coach. And so making sure that you are compensated well for both of those hats, is really important, is part of, you know, scaling a business that's really good. OK, if there's somebody listening who is a beginning coach or someone who has, like, felt the tug in their heart to be a coach. They're not even a coach yet. What is the biggest piece of advice that you would leave them with as we close out.
Jill Coleman 59:34
Oh, God. And so I mean. I will say this is the easiest time, lowest barred entry that's ever been to being a coach. And in terms of, I do believe because there's kind of two things when you think about being coach Amber and you know this obviously is why you have your certification. There's two things. There's subject matter expert. And then there's coach. They're totally different skill sets, so a lot of times people will come in and think because they know nutrition well or because they know fitness well or because they have their own transformation that it should automatically transfer into being a good coach. And there's nothing further from the truth. And so that's why I love this idea that you have this certification that, like literally, teaches people who already know nutrition, by the way. Like common. But you're probably not teaching a ton of nutrition content in your coaching certification. You're teaching them now that you have the subject matter and you are an expert, here's how you transfer that into coaching. So I think the most important thing is if this is in your heart and you really want to start coaching, two things: Number one, find a mentor who can help you become a better coach. You don't need more education. You don't need to read more chemistry books. You don't need to like you know, listen to more science podcasts. You need to find someone who can help you become a coach. That's a completely different skill set. The second thing is you have to get reps. Like as much as I, you know, like certifications and credentials and things like that and that's important part of it and even your own transformation, that's an important part of being expert, clinical reps, nothing in my estimation beats getting reps with clients and so start with beta testing start having, you know, friends and family. My first clients with my aunts and cousins. And I worked with them for free, you know? So you have to get reps and don't look at it like, well, you know, everyone in my ecosystem is someone I know. It's like those people need help with their nutrition too. So I think, ask people on your personal social media or personal Instagram, your personal Facebook that you have a nutrition, you know method or you have a nutrition system and you were looking for a handful of people to help you test out the method. And to me that would be the easiest way to start getting these low-risk wins. So you start to build your own self-trust and you build your own sense of confidence. And self-efficacy that you can actually do this and be and charge you know good money for it. So you have to find a mentor who can help you be an actual coach and then on top of that you have to start getting reps ASAP even if it's messy reps, you got to get in there.
Amber B 01:01:57
Yeah, that's really, really good. All right, Jill, if people are wanting to hook up with you and find out more about your programs and Mod 365 and your coaching cert and your business programs. Where can I find you?
Jill Coleman 01:02:08
Well, I don't have a coaching cert. You have a coaching cert. But we,
Amber B 01:02:11
You do for Mod 365.
Jill Coleman 01:02:14
Yeah. So we do. So we have a certification for Moderation 365, it is around mindfulness moderation. It's not a weight loss cert. So if you are a nutrition coach, you want to learn more about more eating intuitively and things like that. That's what we do. But I am JillFit on all the socials. And yeah, if you guys are interested in sort of the business side of things and you're a coach and you want to learn a little bit more marketing and sales, my podcast is called Fit Biz U and it is literally just marketing, sales, messaging, all that good stuff for wellnes professionals so I would love a subscribe if you guys are interested in that.
Amber B 01:02:45
Yeah, super fun. I didn't tell the story at the beginning, but I'll tell at the end. So Jill came into, so I've been in James' mastermind now for four years. Jill came in three years ago and I remember when I saw on the list I was like ohh my gosh. It's JillFit, JillFit’s gonna be in the mastermind. So I gave her a call and I was like, hey, welcome her mastermind and I was like trying to like be real cool.
Jill Coleman 01:03:06
Dude, you played it so cool.
Amber B 01:03:07
Wait. Real cool on the call I'm not, you know, freak out of like I was talking to JillFit. So Jill, Jill's an icon in the industry and if you listen to her you will go far in the industry, because she knows her stuff.
Jill Coleman 01:03:20
Well, thank you so much for having me. And also just thank you personally. Like I've learned so much from you. And before we turn mics on, Amber was asking me about our last launch and we did. It was our best launch ever and we used some of the things that you shared at my mastermind. So anyway, I've learned a ton from you, so grateful to be connected and thanks so much for having me.
Amber B 01:03:38
Awesome. Thanks so much Jill.
Well, that was a really fun podcast episode. I hope that you enjoyed hearing from us and hearing some of our stories, the mistakes that we've made along the way. They have not been few. But again, remember mistakes are going to happen. It doesn't have to be perfect. You can be successful and get a lot of things wrong along the way. I think really the thing that, Jill pulled out that was so valuable. At the very beginning was just making the decision that I can figure this out and I think that was such a pivotal moment for me is that decision that this is what I want to do and I can figure out all the rest, and I always say to my coaches if you have the desire, I can teach you everything else. I can help you through every other, everything else and coaching is a skill. Skills are learnable. What I can't give you is the desire. So if you have that desire, I invite you to come hop over to my secret podcast for coaches and aspiring coaches. It's called Make Money; Change Lives, a Transformational Macro Coach Series. It's five podcast episodes I put together to really speak to the coach and aspiring coach to be able to help you to be able to become the type of coach that gives clients long term results, and if that's interesting to you, come over to bicepsafterbabies.com/secret because this is a secret podcast. You can't search for it. And you will find it. So come over to bicepsafterbabies.com/secret and come listen to my private podcast for coaches and aspiring coaches. That wraps up this episode of Biceps After Babies Radio. I'm Amber, now go on and be strong because remember my friend, you can do anything.
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