In today’s episode, I’m joined by Natalie Dulaney and Heidi Bollard from Butter Your Macros. We each share stories about times when we’ve decided quitting something was the best decision to make. As you listen to the episode, you’ll learn about the balance between doing hard things, and knowing when it’s time to quit. So without further ado, let’s get into it!
Find show notes at bicepsafterbabies.com/210
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- Build awareness and set coping tools to bring yourself back into alignment (24:47, 41:14, 44:31, 47:28)
- Bring yourself back to a healthy baseline (29:08, 52:00)
- Much growth and healing can happen when you’re connecting with someone (31:42)
- Empower yourself though validating your choices (33:15)
- Hard is relative. Address where you’re at and where you’re coming from first (46:28)
- If you want to be successful, master the basics (54:54)
- There is value in doing hard things, sometimes its value takes place in the process of doing it (55:45)
You're listening to Biceps After Babies Radio episode number 210.
Hello and welcome to Biceps After Babies Radio. A podcast for ladies who know that fitness is about so much more than pounds lost or PRs. It's about feeling confident in your skin and empowered in your life. I'm your host, Amber Brueseke, a registered nurse, personal trainer, wife, and mom of four. Each week, my guests and I will excite and motivate you to take action in your own personal fitness as we talk about nutrition, exercise mindset, personal development, and executing life with conscious intention. If your goal is to look, feel, and be strong and experience transformation from the inside out, you, my friend are in the right place. Thank you for tuning in, now let’s jump into today’s episode.
Amber B 0:47
Hey, hey, hey, welcome back to another episode of Biceps After Babies Radio. By this point, you have already read the title of this episode, and you may be freaking out. So I'm gonna first tell you, I am not quitting my job, I'm not quitting my business, I'm not quitting Instagram, I'm not quitting my podcast, I'm not quitting my marriage. I don't know any of the other important things that you may think that I am quitting. I'm not quitting any of those. Okay.
Amber B 1:12
So we are going to talk about quitting and specifically something that I quit recently. Now, we'll get into the specifics of it. But I just have to say, I came to the gym one day and I was telling my friend Natalie Dulaney from Butter Your Macros about this thing that I quit. And because she's so insightful, and she's like, always the content master, she's like, you need to record a podcast on that. And I was like, you're right, I do need to record a podcast. And so I kind of started talking to her a little bit about it. And she's like, I will even come on and ask you questions. And I was like, That would be great. Because sometimes it's like flushing these things out is really helpful when there's someone there to ask you questions. Because of that, I have Natalie Dulaney and Heidi Bollard on the podcast from Butter Your Macros. You guys probably know them already, they've been on the podcast a bunch. But we are going to chat about quitting and why it can be the best thing that you've ever done. And really, guys, you know, what I really would love to get to by the end of this podcast or have people be able to understand by the end of this podcast is this balance between doing hard things, and the benefit that comes from doing hard things. And then also knowing when it's time to quit, and finding that balance between some of those two extremes. So without further ado, Natalie Dulaney and Heidi Bollard.
How the heck are you guys doing?
What's up quitters? I told you, I'm gonna say that only because everyone's gonna have an emotional reaction to that. You're either laughing at us or you're like, I'm not a quitter. How dare you?
Amber B 2:46
Yeah. Okay, so what I think is gonna be really valuable, we kind of talked about this before, and we planned it out. Each of us are going to come and tell a little bit of a story about something that we have decided to quit. So I'm gonna go first, and then we'll talk about my quitting. And then we'll talk about the things that that you guys have quit. And you guys can kind of prompt me with questions if you think of some
A thousand percent because I definitely believe that this kind of situation requires some context, especially what you're just quitting or what.
Amber B 3:18
Yeah. Okay, so what am I quitting, we've been like holding off for a long time. So what I quit was the quarterfinals of the CrossFit quarterfinals. So if you don't know anything about CrossFit, there is a stage selection process from the regular average CrossFitter to be able to get to the CrossFit Games, which is like the, it's like the NBA Finals. And in order to do that, they go through a selection process where there are stages, and each stage weeds out more and more people. So stage number one is The Open and everybody gets to participate in that you just pay $20 and it's really fun. We do Friday Nights, the whole gym participates and it's really fun. And then the top 10% of people who score in the open, so the top 10 percentile, get to move on to the Quarterfinals. And then from Quarterfinals, they selected down even more into Semi-Finals and from Semi-Finals to The Game. And so it's kind of a big deal to be able to make it into the Quarterfinals. It's top 10% it's, you know, not super easy to do. And it was one of my goals for this year. I accidentally did it last year. Last year was the first year that they had it and actually Natalie, you told me that I was in contention for the Quarterfinals even before I even knew that what that was a thing. You were like… We were wrapping after the second workout–
I am her unassigned CrossFit coach, just for the record. Well, actually, self-designated.
Amber B 4:43
Did you remember that? You told me you're like, “Amber you're like in like the top 10 percentile you can make it to the Quarterfinals!”
Because I was watching the Leader Board because I was excited to see what you did. And then we made this decision that this year would be the year you would try for it.
Would be the year I would try for it.
Which is also part of the context.
Amber B 4:57
That is part of the context. So I set a goal and I wanted to reach the Quarter-finals. And I did. I did really well in the Open and moved on to Quarterfinals. And so I had the option to be able to do the Open Quarterfinals, which is, you know, everybody, all age groups. And then I also qualified for the Age Group Quarterfinals, which is in my age group, I am a Master's now that I'm above 35. So I'm in the 35 to 39 age group. So I could either compete in both of those or one of those. And so I went back and forth and made the decision that I was going to do the Age Group Quarterfinals. Just because the Open One tends to be a little bit heavier, a little bit harder. I did get injured last year doing the Quarterfinals. And so that's kind of looming in the back of my head, and I'm like, I'm just gonna do the Age Group and that'll be great. So that was supposed to be last week, and all leading up until the workouts were released on Thursday, I was back and forth. I was like, part of me wanted to do it. Part of me didn't really want to do it. But I kind of just like held off and was like, “Let's see what the workouts are.” Because the workouts were released on Thursday.
So I want to stop and just ask you, why were you going back and forth between the two, even though you had committed previously last year that this is something that you were gonna go for?
Amber B 6:15
Okay, that's a good question. So, well, okay, so why did I do that? One, because initially, when we had to have this conversation, this is after the Open last year. And I was like, yeah, maybe you actually want to, like, try this year. So actually, like, talk to our CrossFit coach and was like thinking about what would I need to do to actually like, try and attempt and prepare for this. And I realized I would need to add more volume, I would need to add more training days, I would need to, you know, add, like a strength cycle, there would be I could not do within the confines of what I was currently doing five days a week CrossFit, you know, going to classes it needed, it would require something else. And so I thought a lot about that. And I just didn't want to give that, I decided I didn't really want to do anything outside of the context of class. I didn't want to show up earlier, I didn't want to stay later. I didn't want to do any of thoses things. So it didn't. And so when it came time to Quarterfinals, or through the Open, I didn't really do anything extra, I just did normal. And so I hadn't done anything extra to prepare to like really rock Quarterfinals or do Quarterfinals it was kind of like, “Ah, I want to do Quarterfinals but I'm just gonna cross my fingers and hope that everything that I've done in the gym up to this point gets me there.” So yeah, does that answer that question?
That totally, I guess the point of me asking you that question also is just like, why didn't you want to do it? Right? There's a layer of anything that we're doing activity-wise, where there's like a, you know, pros and cons list people like to make or even like a, you know, is really something that I really want to pursue, right. And I think a lot of people will like, like the idea of certain goals or like the idea of certain habits, but they don't actually really think about what it would require them or what they would what it would take to actually achieve them. Right. So it's like part of it is like, always about like, what do you what are you not willing to do, I think is just as important as what you want and what you are willing to do, right? Like no one ever asked, like, what am I not willing to do? But you discover that along the way as measured in pursuance of your goals, it's like, you know, for you, like requiring extra time and extra training wasn't something you're willing to do. So that already established the fact that the juice wasn't really worth the squeeze at that point. But you're like, let's just see what happens. Right? Like,
Amber B 8:24
So good. Yeah, what a great point. Yeah, that's such a great point. It wasn't worth it to me to get to the gym early, or stay in the gym late or spend any more time in the gym. I know, it was worth it to me. And I think knowing that is valuable.
Totally. I mean, sometimes the pros and cons list isn't positive emotions don't always compensate for the negative emotion. So it's actually sometimes more beneficial to look at it, like what are the cons and the cons of it right? To go or to put in extra time, you'd have to give up sleep, or potentially like scale back on some of the different projects that you're doing or, you know, ask, you know, do what delegate different things or whatever. So it's discomfort either way, right? But which discomfort are you intentionally going to choose?
Amber B 9:07
See, this is why I brought Natalie and Heidi on because like, this is the kind of stuff that like we can pull out of these kinds of experiences that like I didn't see either of those points that you guys just made. And there's so incredibly valuable to be able to extrapolate the story that I'm telling and apply it to your unique individual situation. So that's why I brought you guys on, you guys do that. So where was I? So then it was like, okay, so I decided I was going to do the Age Group qualifiers. And so that week, I was going back and forth. And it really was in my mind that the things that were weighing on my mind, was like I did get injured last year. So I'm very aware of that. And the last thing that I wanted to do was like have another injury and the reason I got injured last year is because, as you move up the stages, more is required of you as an athlete, right, more volume, heavier weights, more repetitions, like it's just… It's more than my body was used to what the training that I had been doing, right. And so I was aware that there was a higher level of athleticism and volume and strength that was going to be required. And oftentimes, when we move out of what we're that we normally do, that's where injuries start to happen. So that was weighing on my mind is not wanting to injure myself.
Amber B 10:23
And then one of the reasons I do CrossFit, and you guys know this, I used to power lift. And one of the reasons I came to CrossFit is because I didn't like working out alone, like, I don't like it. For me, it's not enjoyable. I like the gym atmosphere. I like people, I like suffering with people, not suffering by myself, but like, alongside of my friends. And so that was like, Is this even gonna be fun? Like to do the workouts myself and to like, not have like a big crowd around me is that even something that is enjoyable? And why am I doing this if it's not fun. So these were kind of some of the things that were like, making me kind of hem and haw. And then the workouts were released on Thursday. And I was leaning towards not doing it honestly, leading up to Thursday. And then the workouts were released on Thursday. And I looked at them and I was like, Oh my gosh, I can actually do these workouts. Because last year, I could only actually do three out of the five, I only had the skills to do three out of the five, so I only did three. And this year I looked at them, I was like, Oh my gosh, I can do every single one of those workouts. Not awesome or like superstar, but like I can actually complete those workouts. And so then my head started turning, I'm like, Oh my gosh, I actually can do this. Well, maybe I should do it.
What was super interesting too and then like, obviously, like as being like an outside observer and like seeing you every morning is that I don't… I don't think you really realize that up until that point, you are actually making it harder for yourself to say yes to stuff. Like you know, you’d bring it up, we would talk about it. And you'd always have like a roadblock, right? Like it was like, oh, but like finding someone to judge my, you know, we asked you like, Oh, hey, so like what's happening, you know, with, you know, finals or whatever. And you're like, Well, I don't really have anyone to judge me or score me. And Heidi and I are like, but you never asked. Right? Like you have friends in the community who would support you and encourage you. But it was like interesting how and then like, Oh, my elbows acting up. And not that you even did it deliberately. But I think there's it's interesting how like, when we have these goals, and we're a little bit nervous about them, sometimes we can start to sandbag ourselves and make it harder for us to say yes to the goal. I don't know what you're doing all along the way, right? And even just like the day of like, you know, you text us like that, like I think the way they were doing the next day, right? And you texted like anyone, can anyone like come and judge me. And that was it was so uncharacteristic of you as someone who's a planner, that I was like something made her change her mind, which now I'm realizing is that you saw that you could do the workouts. And I think that's such an interesting thing that we do to ourselves because we're like I can, I can, I can… like, wait, they maybe I can in our head about it too, right? And then it's like, we have these conflicting things, or we've been making it hard for us to say yes, for all this time. And then we get like a little bit of like this, like, maybe I can, and then it just starts a whole another cycle,
Amber B 13:08
Yeah, no, so it's totally true. And like, you're 100% and you even called me out on it. You're like, well, you'd never even asked! Like, I'm like, oh, it's gonna be hard to find judges and like, and you're like, but you never even asked. You have friends who would like do that for you. And I'm like, You're right. But it like it was a manifestation to that I didn't really want to do it. You know, it was like, I didn't put any thought into it. I didn't put any plan into it. I didn't like do anything up to it to make it successful. You know, because I didn't really want to at the core level. I didn't really want to do it. Yeah, you're good. You're good at that Natalie.
Well, we're on our bike. And I'm like, “Ph, wouldn't it be so nice if you had friends you could ask us to come to do that?” Like literally, like it hadn't even occurred to you, I think because you had already decided not to.
Yeah, I think that's totally fair. So it's always worked out. And I was like, I can do them. And so then I rushed and I was like, can you guys like anybody like and it's calling who have you can't but like if you guys can judge like I'll totally take you right. And so I sent all this text to Heidi, Natalie and Jenna. And shocker, none of you could like, judge in the next hour, how rude of you. And so I'm looking at my schedule and I had a coaching call that night and like, I was like, I can't really go to the gym at night. And like looking at my schedule, I'm like, I can go right now. If I go right now. I can get two of the workouts done before I have to go pick up kids from school. So I like shoved down my food and I went to the gym and I was like, I don't really have to have a judge. I'm not going anywhere in Quarterfinals. We can just do it kind of for funsies. I'll record it and it'll be fine. So I got to the gym and there was nobody else there. And I started warming up and I was gonna start with the total which is squat, deadlift, and press and it's a total weight for all of those doing those three lifts. So I started with my squat. And I got up to like 125-145 and as I'm putting these weights on and like getting under the bar, I'm sore from the week because I didn't plan to do this. So I frickin like killed it at CrossFit the whole week. So I'm sore and the bar feels incredibly heavy and I'm not having any fun. If I'm alone in this, like empty gym, which I don't like is not enjoyable to me. And I was like, why am I doing this? Why am I here? And we can get to the reason why I just like, I figured out like, why I decided to do it. But it was in that moment, I was like, I don't want to do this. I don't want to. And so I took off my belt. I put my weights away. And I like got in my car and went home. And once I made that decision, one of the reasons why I knew it was the right one is I felt a ton of relief. I was like, “Yes.” Like it just felt good. It was like once I made the decision, there was no like hemming and hawing, there was no like, oh, maybe I should. It's like, No, this is like, I'm so glad I just like made this decision and close that door and moved on. And no time during that weekend did I ever think to myself, You know what I wish I was doing right now? Workout number three, or like, you know what I where I wish I was right now, I wish I was at the gym. And that was also a confirmation like, Yeah, this is a good kind of quit for me.
So I have a question for you, then. I think what's interesting about like, the way you laid it out, and kind of like what we've talked about a little bit before is that I think this is a lot of times we'll see this with our goals in general, right? It's like, you know, you have these things that you kind of want preferably, I mean, and I'm not saying that you'll never do it again because maybe this essentially gives you more, a little more insight into what you want for maybe next year, right. And I think what's happening is like, you know, you deciding that you wanted it last second is so, like, so many people were like, Oh, well, I've got a trip coming up in like two weeks, I better lose weight. Or I'm gonna see friends that I haven't seen in a long time. And about three weeks I better like, go into a cut, right?
Or I wish I can, that means I should.
Amber B 16:53
I think I did that. I see what you did, right there?
No, continue with that! Because you know where I’m going. It's like, it's interesting how like, we a lot of times, like when we don't plan for it. And then yeah, we decide we want it, then all of a sudden things like don't work out the way we do. And then we spiral about it, right? Kind of like how you're saying like, I mean, that week was like a normal amount of volume. We had like a 30-minute workout on a Tuesday, a 30-minute workout on Wednesday and Thursday, you were to go in and try to max all your lifts. Like you were sore, you're heavy. You didn't plan for it. Right? But how many times people are like cutting on a whim, right? Like, oh, I mean, I've got like, three deadlines. I've got my in-laws coming into town. I have two kids that are sick. My husband's going on away on like a, you know, a business trip. Sounds like a perfect time to time to cut
And then we wonder why it doesn't work out first. And we wonder why. And then all sudden, it's like, “Oh, I'm such a quitter. I'm such a failure.” Because you just decided to add this to your already full life like Heidi always says, cutting is not an add-on to a really full plate. And I think it's like you saw that. And what you did is like, yeah, if you decide to move even just a week earlier, you can gameify the situation to maybe work in your favor to take this on. But because the days leading up to it, you actually were almost working against yourself. And then let's just say you ended up doing the workouts and you didn't perform really well. Or you know, you would always be wondering like, “Well, do I suck or is it because I maybe didn't plan for it?”
Amber B 18:20
I didn't schedule it. So what I realized is like the thing that kept driving me to do the workouts and this is also we can relate to a lot of different instances was other people's perception of me, of others people's like, what was like I had told a lot of people, like my massage therapist, like my friends from high school, like you guys, the gym knew, like, there was a lot of people that I was–
— like, how on Instagram went on and told everybody, right?
Just 70,000 people, that's all you just them about it
Amber B 18:53
What, you know, like I told all these people, there's like these expectations of me of like completing this and like, what am I gonna say when my massage therapist is like, Oh, hey, how was the Quarterfinals last week? And I realized at the end of the day, if that was my only motivation was like to do it for other people or to do it to make other people happy. That was never going to be the right motivation for me. And I was essentially giving up like my happiness, my enjoyment, my body and maybe risking injury in order to not disappoint other people. And that's a terrible reason to make a decision for anything. And you know, what's funny about this is also that that is all in my head. Right? It's because I showed up the next day and now it's like, Oh, I thought we were gonna like you're gonna I was gonna judge you on the quarterfinals. I was like yeah, I decided not to do it. She's like cool. Moving on, you know, and it's like, in my head I had this be like, not going to be so disappointed in me. She's like, gonna think that I'm a loser like I should have done this and like, but in reality, I was like, literally all in my head. Nobody else cares. Like, didn't do this thing. I made a decision not to do it and it was what was the decision was right for me. But we get stuck in our head so often I'm like, What are other people going to think about that decision? And at the end of the day, it doesn't care, it doesn't matter. At the end of day, usually they don't care as much as you think that they care about it.
When it's like, everyone has a reason. It's like, even when, you know, when I went that morning with the intention to judge you if you needed it. And you told me that I'm like, Cool. It's like, I'm not the one doing the work. So I can't judge your reason for doing it or not doing it right. And I think so many times people are like, Well, I would really, you know, we hear this with like couples like, Well, my husband really wants me to lose weight. Well, that's great and all but like, he's not doing the work at all. Like, we know, people will come into the salon. And they'll be like, you know, my husband really wants me to be blonde. And I'm like, I don't really care what your husband wants. What do you want? Like, well, actually, I really like being brunette. It's like, how many of our decisions are made at the house of other people? In reality, it's like, you're the one that has to take care of it. You're the one that has to maintain it, you're the one that has to put the effort in. So why did they what is their judgment? I mean, I'd say that I am definitely unmuted that's like, why is there a judgment or their opinions of us really, like, factor in so much?
Well, totally. And even if it's just like you say, to avoid other people's judgments, when we're caught up in other people's thoughts and feelings, we're totally disconnected from ourselves. And I think it's really interesting that one of the first signs of awareness you had about how you really felt about it was how your body felt, you know, you kind of got out of like, the mental narrative of like, Should Shouldn't this that expectations or whatever, and you're like, noticing how do I feel right now? And then before long, the domino effect of like, honoring said feelings, right? We say this a lot. Like, you know, people to use an example like, don't think of a yellow school bus, right? What did you just think about? Don't care what people think. The focus is still on what other people think. So at the end of the day, it is truly what do you think, what do you want, like you're saying and then taking action from that place then you're in alignment, right? And then interesting that like, anything that related to shame, there's always like these aftershocks, right. Like you felt good about the decision. And then the next morning, you're like, the Shame Gremlins pop up of like, why don't people think right? Right. Just indicative to your point very often, sometimes people are judging us, let's just like that is true. But like, it's interesting, the things that you worry about, about what, you know, the specific judgments that you put you imagine other people or having tell you a lot about the way you judge yourself.
Amber B 22:37
Totally 100%. Yeah, so good. So that's my story about quitting and why it's the best thing that I've ever done. I don't regret it at all.
Seriously, you brought yourself home.
Amber B 22:49
Yeah. Yeah. So that's my story. Heidi, Okay, you tell your story.
Sure. So, like you said, in the parking lot of DTSA, just a couple of days ago, I do quit a lot of things are very often, but I'm so rather than focus on a specific thing, because like, I've stopped doing CrossFit for the time being, but I wouldn't say that I've like fully quit it. But so what I am working on quitting is emotional perfectionism. So similar to using a macro analogy, right? Like, we can't heal our relationship with food, if we're always like, this is good, this is bad, you know, I'm good, being good if I do this. I'm being bad if I do it. There's a right way or a wrong way, or those kinds of things. Similarly, we cannot heal our relationship with ourselves if certain emotions and feelings are unacceptable or right or wrong, like, I should never feel insecure, I should never feel bad about myself, I should never, you know, these, I have a long list of emotions that I really don't like to feel. And so when I feel them, my initial reaction is to fix it, or hide it or control how I feel in some way. So, and this is my default, this is my default mode of operations. So building awareness around it, like I just mentioned to you like noticing how you're feeling, checking in with myself, and sort of retraining my belief system about myself is what I'm working on first and foremost, like above, and beyond any body goals or nutrition goals or Instagram growth goals or whatever. So, yeah, that is what I'm working on quitting emotional perfectionism.
So how do you do that?
Amber B 24:45
How's it going?
It's going better, right. So it's things like so for example, this morning. I gave a lot of judgment about being angry like it was, I think my default modus operandi tells me that I should never be angry, angry is a bad emotion. You're a bad person if you're angry, so we should never be angry. Well, a story came up this morning that made me very angry. I felt like one of my children was being judged unfairly made me feel super, super upset. And I was just like, Okay, well, then we're just going to quit this thing entirely like, right, I'm either going to write a strongly worded email to fix it, or we're just going to avoid it entirely, right? Because my child doesn't deserve this. So I noticed I paid attention to how I was feeling. And I did a meditation on anger and compassion towards anger. And like, because your feelings are messages, right? They're telling you, like a boundary has been like with anger, for example, a boundary has been crossed. Right? So understanding what it is I'm truly angry about. It's not the stupid thing that the teacher said, it's that I felt judged. I felt like my child was judged. So is that something worth experiencing like being upset about? Yeah, absolutely. Right. Like, that's a fair point. So anger can serve a purpose, right. So building compassion for my anger, compassion for myself, connecting back to myself about like, what I want to believe and, you know, again, just getting out of like, the racing thoughts, the mental narrative where you're growing the story and amplifying your feelings, instead, just like connecting back to myself, and what I truly believe, and through the course of that meditation, I could feel the judgments against my own anger and the judgments against the other party start to reduce a little bit, right. Talking it through with Nat like connecting and being able to express myself, and then reassuring myself that as the kind of the re-parenting thing of like, that's okay, it's okay that you feel this way. Nothing is effed. Right? In many ways, like we don't, we don't need to fix this, and we don't need to avoid it, it's a great opportunity to teach my child and myself, that there's going to be road bumps, there's going to be turbulence in life in every way. Right, and that I don't need to save my child. What they do need to be is that, you know, these things are to recognize, you know, toxicity might be a little strong, but to recognize those circumstances that bring up different feelings, like was my did he feel shame? Did he not even notice, like, being able to help him build his own emotional intelligence through discussing it instead of sort of operating on this default network of like, Nope, I should not feel this way. Nobody should feel this way. It shouldn't be like this. And kind of being at war with yourself, instead of having compassion for your human experience, right? It's like, scale fluctuations, right? How much drama we see our clients go through and we are in the past, you know, having gone through that turbulence ourselves over the scale and how it fluctuates? Well, the same thing happens with our emotions, right? Like our emotions are going to fluctuate, and building awareness and a set of coping tools, you have to sort of bring yourself back into alignment and not from a fixing place, right? It may take as long as it takes, right? Maybe it'll maybe my anger spike this morning and maybe it'll spike again this afternoon or something about the issue, but that over time, I'm processing learning to process emotions, and bring myself back to a more healthy baseline. And not with the intention of like, so that I never feel this way again. But that I am, I'm building tolerance for discomfort.
I think I love what you said about a lot of things that I want to kind of make a couple comments and questions about that too. Because I think what's interesting is that you say bringing yourself back to a healthy baseline, that's gonna look different for everybody. Right? And I think what was interesting is even in the story that Amber shared, like, she did show that kind of thing. It's like, you feel okay with your decision. And then the next morning like, oh, wait, maybe that I'm not okay with decision and sometimes I think we're so eager to be done with feeling bad. Yes, that will be like don't even allow for the possibility of like the aftershock emotions, right. And it's interesting when you brought up you know, the emotional, you know, things that you're trying to like, kind of work through. It's like, How many times have we heard are high and say, I should quit feeling this way. I just want to quit feeling bad about myself. I want to quit feeling like I'm out of control-
Amber B 29:49
— or you still don’t want to be here.
Yeah, I just don't want to be here. When in reality, it's like, if you're an emotional newbie it's like you everything every time you feel a negative emotion, you're absolutely going to be like I don't want to feel this way. We're no one's like, I can't wait till I can quit feeling happy all the time, right? You never heard you were like, I'm like such a good place. I can't wait till it stops. Like everyone, no one ever wants to feel negative emotion. But the tricky part is you can't have one without the other. You can't realize when you're happy unless you've been sad before, like, there's no way to just like, live in this. Like, I mean, I'm sure people try for sure to like live in the state of control perpetual bliss, that nothing ever happens. And it's like, but then if nothing's happening to you, then literally nothing's happening to you, right.
And the way we judge it, but like, if I'm feeling negative emotion, then that means I'm doing it wrong somehow. Or if I'm like, you know, definitely one of you know, I definitely have on some level, the sort of religious trauma belief of like, if you're righteous, you'll always be happy, right? Like if I'm, you know, other judgments like, you know, at like, asking for help is weakness, right? Or just inherently like not wanting to show up unscripted, right, like a huge exercise in vulnerability is a podcast where you can't plan up a plan everything, right? Like, even the way we just asked you questions live, right? You didn't have a prepared response. And when you're being vulnerable, you also open yourself up to like, some shame Gremlins like is what I said, okay, like, is what I said, gonna hurt somebody's feelings. Like, did I accidentally pants myself on, you know, on a podcast or whatever. But again, and or this idea that I can only show up sparkling, happy and articulate and, you know, like, I need to perform this way-
Amber B 31:37
I can only show up as a winner.
Amber B 31:40
Only when I'm successful with my goals,
Right. And ironically, like, you know, they say that you know, one of the reasons that people in our position sometimes don't want to show that part is they think it will invalidate their authority somehow, right? Like, oh, if there, if I show that I'm broken in some way, then people will not like listen to me or respect what I have to say or anything like that when in reality, the opposite is totally true, right? When you are connecting with someone like that's where so much growth and healing can happen.
Well, even for myself as somebody who would like have loved as a civilian, CrossFit, as much like yourself, like would have loved to have some kind of opportunity or layer like that. I also like impressed and I respect the fact that like you did call that for yourself hold on right to give up I think that's the people don't see like that kind of validation in quitting as well. Like you're saying like, hey, yeah, people might might “be disappointed” with me people might judge me people might whatever but I am having my own back and saying that this is not the right time for me is part of like validating yourself when you are “quitting or giving up something”–
– And that's like the hallmark of confidence. You can't be confident if you don't know how you feel and you're not supporting yourself instead of emotions and if the only time we validate ourselves or feel like we're worthy is when we're happy, sparkly up, winning, motivated. That only makes it that much more difficult when we experienced the negative emotions because on top of that, we're judging ourselves that we shouldn't even be that way in the first place
And validating yourself, Amber like when you were like “I don't like this is not the way I like to work out, this is not the way that I want to feel, this is not the way that I feel like this was would have gone in my head if I had planned for it”. That was fully validating your choices, which therefore becomes empowering and that's what people miss about quitting they don't get that. All they see is the shame and the embarrassment and letting down all rationalize things. And Oh, if I would have only or like and yeah, there might be a day where you're like, you know, especially as we get to like the Game season and like when you go with your kids and got our kids Games tickets for so Christmas like you might be there and thinking like oh, I wonder what would have happened if I maybe would have just stuck it out just made me or if I would have trained or if I would have showed up with like Marco at the gym and like did the programming he was doing and things like that exercise or whatever. But the coolest part about that is like that it gives you an idea of like maybe I do want an action or it might be like you know what? That is pretty cool, but I don't know that I'll ever get there or be in that place ever revisited again and I'm also good with that too. And really like especially with the emotions that you were talking about Heidi I love it, like you need to validate that you feel bad like yes, I have a right to feel bad about this. Like you don't have to gaslight yourself like oh I just like toxic positivity. I should never ever feel bad about anything that anyone ever says about my kid. I should be totally fine. That's like why I'm valid in my anger. I am valid in my sadness. I'm valid in my depression. I'm valid in my disappointment. Like that actually helps you process the emotion faster than if you're just constantly like never feel this way, please.
Amber B 34:44
Absolutely. So good, that's awesome. Okay, Nat.
Okay, so mine actually I kind of love how this like just all worked out. We're so in sync you guys. I really feel like mine is is a little bit of both of yours kind of tight into one. So, obviously like right now I am definitely CrossFitting again, and for those of you maybe–
Amber B 35:06
— It's so fun to have you back.
I’m happy to be here. Gotta give somebody for her to beat every single day. I’m happy to be that person for you, Amber. I think what it is, is like and if I actually talked about this on earlier, the earlier podcast that we've done with Amber before and on another one of ours is that I gave up bodybuilding. And that was something that I decided to quit. And initially, like I if I really, really break it down, comes down to a lot of the things that you were sating Amber and a lot of things that you were saying Heidi, is that I wanted to do this because I wanted to not only be validated for my efforts and my body but also be acceptable to Instagram. Because honestly, nobody in my family really gives two craps if I have like biceps or anything, right? I mean, arguably, I'm fitter than every single one of my siblings right now. So it's not even about earning my peers either like I had no, I think that was the oddest part about the whole thing is that it wasn't even for my peeps, right? It wasn't for you, Amber, or you, Heidi or my husband, or random on Instagram. It's an audience of Instagram that expects me to be a certain way or look a certain way for to get a business job. And it wasn't even completely made up in my head. I mean, there definitely was a time where people had asked me like, oh, how do you feel like working with Heidi, and she looks so great. And so that kind of started putting punching holes into my psyche, being like, oh, let's not even talk wasn't that's a whole nother podcast that seriously, people are weird to say to like people on Instagram that they supposedly like and follow. So mean, it wasn't like, it wasn't just me making those interpretations.
Not you guys are listening here. No.
I had my own insecurities and my own narratives. Absolutely. I mean, when you're in a duo, and together as much as we are, like, once again, like our brains love comparisons. That's how we like live in this world. Like, people aren't going to compare us right? Or confuse us. They call me Heidi all the time. But to the point of like, you know, people would ask you things like, Oh, how does it feel to like, not be as fit as Heidi or, you know, all these things. And it was starting to like really poke holes and like, gosh, like, am I not showing up on Instagram the way that I'm supposed to? Right. And that, I think is like the tricky irony of this whole, like movement that we're in right now with like, diet culture, and self-love and body positivity, like part of you is like, I can show up as is like, why not? Like there, I'm sure I'm more representative of most women out there than I then the other way, right. But at the same time, it's like, in order to establish yourself as an authority, everyone seems to believe people who have six-packs, even if they say the most horrible things like, but they have a six-pack, they just told me that like, you know, such as, such as, such as, such and such and such as such, but like, but they have a six-pack. So they must be an authority.
Totally. Meanwhile, I have the dissonance of like, “looking the part” but like you're, you smoke me in any sort of athletic or fitness sphere, right? So it's like that isn't even a thing you look at, the part means you can perform the part. It's not even necessarily the thing.
But that's also the tricky part about like our society, right? Like, we always assume it's like kind of like what people do, like they assume when people are overweight, that they're having things are going wrong in their life, right. And then if they're losing weight, then they must be doing something right or library to be good. No wonder why we're all messed up a little bit about the things that we do and the things we pursue. So ultimately, we spent, you know, spent a year bodybuilding and I definitely had like, some trauma and a really bad like experience with like cutting at 1195 calories and not getting the aesthetics that I thought I was gonna get what the work I was putting in, etc, etc. And definitely, I mean, I think I wouldn't look back at it now. Like, we need to manage your expectations a little bit, but I honestly believe that if I was willing to put the work in, I should get what I want. Right? I like to like if I did the work I put the work in, I should be able to go to regionals. You know, I put the work in, I should never feel bad about it. And so this was the ugly truth that human terms the fact that like, not only did I do a lot of this work, but I didn't get the result that I thought I needed to show up. And I spent a good quite a few months just really, really like not liking, like where I was sitting because part of me just didn't want to chase aesthetics anymore. Like I didn't want to feel that I had to show up a certain way. And there definitely was a lot of like, Alright, I'm good enough as is like, don't I contribute enough? My brain has a six-pack, like give me a minute.
Amber B 39:18
Can we make that a meme?
I am super jacked mentally. I'm like PRs all over the place. But like, you know, you can see it's and that's how that's also the thing of ice cream, right? Like you can't see people's emotional mental transformations or sacrifices, right? It's like they're, they don't go together either. And so quitting bodybuilding, was me quitting the idea that I had to be and show up a certain way from people and that was like the judgments of everybody out there, right? And even people that you meet to, like, they hear that you're, you know, nutrition coach or CrossFit Level One trainer or whatever it is, and they're like, Oh, well, they don't look like that. It's like as if we could totally tell, right. And I think that's also one of the reasons why I love CrossFit so much is because it never ceases to amaze me what people can do with their bodies and not look like it at all right like that, you know, we've talked a lot about times about that completed and there was a girl who like, cleaned, like, what was it 245 or something, and you would have not even looked at her twice in the grocery store thinking she lift like that, right. But it's like, that's the beauty of like, CrossFit and lifting and things like that is like I wasn't required to look a certain way in order to do it. And I think that's why I love CrossFit so much, and why it's healthy for me to quit bodybuilding, because, first of all, the process of lifting for aesthetics is really tricky, because you don't even ever know when your biceps gonna pop, like, let's be totally honest. You could do, depending on your genetics, depending on your adherence, your nutrition, all sorts of factors involved, like I could literally lift and body belt for two or three years and probably might not ever, ever really look like I have a jet upper body. It's just the reality of like genetics and like, training, right? My legs have no problem, I don't even really care about my legs, yet they show up.
We need to finally do that picture where the books where you know, their faces all cut up into strips, and you can change the bottom, like, Hi, my upper body, or lower body with a perfect Instagram, if you just-
See. So that's why there's both of us on this page because together we have the most influential body and brain on the planet, right? This is a secret we're telling you. But it really was like, I didn't realize that I was quitting until I really decided that it just did not interest me in the way that it shutter while I wanted to I actually have no interest right now currently in bodybuilding. And sure, of course, like I still want aesthetics and me who doesn't, I still love to like improve this improve that. But like the juice is just really not worth the squeeze to me is it doesn't motivate me and inspire me in the way that CrossFit does. And CrossFit is challenging for me in a lot of different ways. Sure, I might not ever go to regionals, or even qualify for semis or anything like that. But like, what I loved is that, you know, we got our stats for the CrossFit Games, and I think this was my fifth year doing them. And you know, telling Heidi and Amber that like I was super delighted in like realizing like where I started and where I am now. It really showed true growth where I don't know that I feel that like aesthetics could ever do that for me, right? It's like, oh, you could always be a little leaner or have a little bit more of a pump there. Or maybe you should go for veins next time or whatever the things is that people do. You know, as far as from an aesthetic standpoint, and I'm not dissing anybody's desire for aesthetics, everyone is allowed to have whatever goals that they want. But I think quitting when you know it's healthy for you or not healthy for you is also part of having your back about your goals. So like in 2018, I was 20,938th in the CrossFit Games. And this year, I am 4103rd. So there's a marked difference in who I am, and had nothing to do with what I look like. And I think that that is what I need for my emotional health and for my physical strength. And whoever I am, is to just be good about who I am. And I had had my own background and validate myself that like okay, so yeah, you might not ever “look this” way on Instagram. But do I really need to?
Amber B 43:12
Yeah, well, and you said something that is like, the same thing that you said back to me is that you can want the goal but it not be worth the process to get like it. As you said, I would love to wake up and have biceps, I would love to wake up and have a six-pack. I would love that.
Well, I would love to wake up and real and think oh my gosh, I can do every single Open Workout. Like that's totally within and to your point, it's not like the goal itself. It's all about the energy and your perception of it, because like to your point about bodybuilding, for me with where I'm at, it's actually the perfect for me right now because… if I'm not if I'm doing CrossFit, I'm not intentional, and that's how I got my strength and balance all crazy, right? Whereas now working mindfully on balancing my strength and being intentional about the movements that I'm doing is perfect for where I am with my emotional, you know, my emotional perfectionism goals and checking in with myself. So it's really it's not whether it's not like, you should always go for quarterfinals if you can, you should always do CrossFit if you can, you should always do bodybuilding, you should always cut calories if you can. It's about what do you actually want and what is driving you?
Amber B 44:29
That's so good, Yep.
You know what it’s like? You always hear like those, like, sometimes motivational posts you like text me right? But it seems like there's always a win. Like when you feel like quitting, think about why you started. But when you think about why you started if it doesn't align with you, then by all means quit it.
Amber B 44:45
Oh my gosh. So good.
It's like everyone's like, it's like everyone thinks that their reasons have to be so profound. But sometimes like all of us, as we get into a train of thought or mode for a goal, and then yeah, sometimes you realize like, “Dude, I don't know that I really want this.” I don't.. it's like… Have you ever waited in line for like a ride at Disneyland or like a restaurant and been like, “Uhhh, how long is it going to be? I'm good.”
Oh, totally. And I saw this meme yesterday of like, wherever you are, at least you're not this woman waiting in line behind like three mannequins that she didn't realize were mannequins. Right, but just questioning and to your point, just because it looks like other people are doing it.
Oh, my gosh. And that like, what is that? What if those mannequins are literally like photoshopped versions of people on the internet even exist, and you're waiting in line for like this physique thinking this is going to happen for you. And in reality, they're not even real.
And I want to high-five you so hard right now.
Amber B 45:39
So good. All right. So we've obviously run the gamut. And we've all had quit things. So how do we like wrap this up for people in a way that if somebody was before you if you were coaching a client, right, and they're like, I'm really struggling, like part of me thinks that like, this is a hard thing, because hey, I think there's value in doing her things. It's one of the things I love most about weightlifting, is like, women feel like they can't do something like it's too hard like that bar is too heavy, and then they work at it. And then they lift the frickin bar. And they surprise themselves and they're like, oh, my gosh, I'm stronger than I thought I was. Right. I think there is innate value and doing her things. So if you're coaching a client through this thing is hard. Part of me kind of wants to quit. But part of me also wants to, like, show up for myself and do hard things. How do you coach a client through making that decision?
First of all, I think hard is relative, right? Like what's hard for you and hard for Heidi and hard for me or give me a few different things. And so that's also part of it, too. It's like a lot of times you can get into your head about like, oh, well, she will, she's mastered everything. And I can't even like you know, you know, wake up and get water and steps like, how am I going to ever get that far as like, Hey, your hard is relative to you. So addressing where you're at, and like where you're coming from is like the first thing like, let's not even look at anybody else. But like, let's also look at the context of your life. Like a lot of our goals are surrounded by that. Like, you know, I remember when I first went to CrossFit with Jenna, and I was like, trying to figure out like, oh, gosh, I'm so obsessed. I can't wait to come here. And she's like, and I remember her saying to me, it kind of pissed me off. Love you so much, Jenna. But she's like, “Maybe it's just not time for you” Because of what she said to me, and of course, for all you who know me, I'm like, Oh, nah.
But it's sometimes when you are faced with what you don't want, it shows you what you do want.
Exactly. And so Jenna, I love you. Because that point made me realize that I really did want to do CrossFit. Like I was at the phase, it was the right time for me to do it. Right?
Totally. Yeah, well, unlike with the rate of perceived exertion, right? Like, I love that that's like a metric that they haven't been able to top in terms of what is an appropriate level for you, right? So maybe you think you should be able to lift whatever bar but you have to start with where you are, where what is. So if the bar is too heavy to lift, what do we know, we got to reduce the weight, right, you have to make time for your goals, you have to make time for your feelings, you have to, you know, get to a place of acceptance and allowance, right. And then from there, it's like a progressive overload principle, right? Like, that's how we get stronger is you start with the challenge that you can access achievable, and then you and then you build from there, continuing to practice awareness and acceptance and checking in with yourself about how it feels.
And to piggyback on your example. It's like so many times, you'll want to bust through these things and just work through them and “get it over” and quickly and things like that. But we know with progressive overload, and we know what with lifting in, like all the snatches and Olympic movements and anything like there is a limit if you don't have good form. You're gonna cut yourself off really quickly if you're not going through the right process in order to achieve your goals
Worst case, you'll injure yourself. Best case, you're just limiting yourself because your form is breaking down and you've got an energy leak.
Exactly, because you're not willing to just slow down and address what you're capable of at the moment.
Amber B 48:49
Right, so what I'm hearing is, so for those of you don't know, RPE is rate of perceived exertion, and it's on a sliding scale of 0 to 10. 10 being like, “Oh my gosh, I did that one lift and I wanted to die and I couldn't have done a single ounce more.” And so what I'm hearing you say Heidi, is that if you want a 200 pound deadlift, but a 155 pound deadlift right now is an RPE of nine for you. Then we got to go down and get that RPE a little bit lower and start to push it slowly up over time, so that it's not like you're going to an RPE you can't go to RPE of 12 it doesn't exist. So you bring the weight down bring the volume down to something that's like an RPE six or an RPE seven and then you slowly increase your tolerance for that to go up to until the 200 now is an RPE of nine or something like that you can actually do it.
There's no 12. Like there is a cap, you guys.
Amber B 49:39
You can't go past 10 on an RPE!
Even if there should be-
Amber B 49:45
– There’s no such thing as an RPE 11.
Exactly. And like there's a cap on how much you can accomplish without getting to the right place. Like it's like what you said about a 6. So the six might be like you never getting to XYZ habit and that's fine because you're still working on the other ones. Everyone likes to get to 10 so quickly. Like it's industry, it's like, Well, I'm just gonna do these 17 things that I've never done before and expose myself to do them perfectly. And then keep-
– Ironically, all of your healthy habits lead to like a very unhealthy lifestyle view stressing yourself out all the time, right.
— and to your point and injury, like if you're trying to go for 12 and a 10 scale, you're gonna hurt yourself.
Amber B 50:18
You know the worst way to build muscle is to do everything at an RPE of 10. You're only lifting an RP of 10, you're never gonna build anything like actually, six to seven is like the right RPE to building.
There's a double meaning in that.
Oh, sorry, you kind of saying that. Like, maybe you should go as extreme as possible in order to get results. But maybe like a moderate strategy gets better.
Amber B 50:41
You build a business around that, guys.
So one of the things that I think whenever like, including for myself, but like when our clients get to this kind of crossroads, is there are two questions that I think that are important to ask ourselves, it's like, what is it going to mean to you to make it to like, complete your goal? And what is it going to mean to you to give it up? And I think that those are really important questions because they're going to change in this duration and span of your day, of your life, of your consequences. And, and I think, like what you might start out with, right, like, what it means to like, hit my weight loss goal means that I'll never feel bad about myself, right? Or I can show up that as I think I should, like, you know, go to this wedding, or I'll have more confidence or–
— my husband will be happier.
Exactly right. And then as you get into your goal, it's like, well, what does it mean to give it up, it means that I can, like stop killing myself, and not sleeping enough, I can stop like thinking that I might not there yet. I can stop, you know, like, there's always going to be, it's like almost like a goal like a quitting goals, pros and cons list, it's like, Sure, there are going to be benefits to both sides, there are going to be really great things about you making it they're also doing great things about you giving it up. And I know like, you know, that is the juice worth the squeeze is kind of like, you know, we're squeezing it to death, right? But it really is true because like some things are not going to be worth it to you depending on where you are at in your life, you know.
Totally, it's like there's discomfort and taking the bar down to an achievable level because it's not where you think it should be. But there are also cons and discomfort in putting it at a weight that's too heavy. So being intentional about it, is how you open yourself up to building confidence, right.
And like for instance, like right now CrossFit we're working on building to technical heavies, technical heavies are way different than a one-rep max. Like one is like, it's friggin ugly and sloppy but I got it up. And then there's a technical heavy that's like, this was really beautifully executed, and you could feel super confident about your form your technique, and you didn't injure yourself. And so it's like, yeah, you're gonna have people who find value in both. They're the people who are like, let's one rep max our faces off at the cost of everything, right.
Like I had a perfect day, I did all of the things right. And My Fitness Pal is perfectly balanced and whatever. Now I only have to do this replicate this a million times. Oh, wait, and all of a sudden, a wash of overwhelm comes over me?
Oh, my gosh, I'm fully like getting kind of like a warm frame here. Because this is part of it, too. It's like, how many things do we sacrifice for the number like, whether it's the scale or the weights? It's like, Yeah, so like that 290 I pulled, probably could have been technically better, right for my deadlift. Right. But it's like dropping it back down. And really working on like, a technical heavy, would be in my best interests in order to master something. Right? So it's like, you're, it's like, it should be technically. And if you can't, and then if you can, then to your point, like if you can't replicate it again, 10 times did you even do it? Right. Like in your mind, you think like, “Oh, like I should be able to get back there.” We hear that a lot. Like, she did it before. Like I was at the weight before.
Or like my 14-year-old. He keeps thinking that he can one rep max every week. Like it's like, come on guy.
Amber B 53:44
I still remember that when I hired my first lifting coach, I was feeling pretty bad about myself. I was lifting like, I was definitely like, 220 and I'm like, doing really great. And I sent her my first video and the first thing she frickin told me she's like, Okay, so we're gonna go back down to about 170 and we're gonna go way back up, and I was like, “Oh, well, okay. I'm not good as not what I thought.” And she's like, “No, it's okay.” But there are a lot of things that we can improve. And tp Natalie's point. It's like, if you focus on the form, like and that was the reason I hired the coach was because I couldn't break past like 225. And so the reason was, we needed to go back down, we needed to work on form and we needed to get it right. And then I blew past 225 like it was no big deal. A little bit of humble pie to do that.
But that's so fantastic, right? Because what if she had just written back like, awesome, great, couldn't be better, whatever. Like that kind of feedback can only take us so far. It might feel good, but like specific, actionable feedback that keeps you accountable to what you truly want, right? Like sometimes it does. It is a little bit of humble pie, but that's how you get there.
Well, it's so when you heard that though, we this is what I would just love to ask you as we start to close, I think a lot of times people think like, Oh no, I'm not worried about those I get that like I want to know about like creatine and adding intermittent fasting and carb cycling and you know all these extras that cardio finishers. They believe that are going to like accelerate, like, you know. Like if she would have just told you kinda like, “Oh yeah, you're fine.” Then you'd be like, Okay, well then I'm just gonna keep going and doing what I'm doing. ut in reality she's like, “No, let's like, bring it down to basics.” And I think a lot of times people forget that it's like, if you want to be successful, you need to master the basics.
Amber B 55:26
Stop complicating it .
Exactly. So luckily for everyone Humble Pie is also high in protein. So takeaways, also honor your goals too.
It can be honoring, like, what's most important to you?
Yeah, for sure.
Amber B 55:45
Yeah, so good. I love it. I think for me, the thing that I'm taking away from this is, is the question of like, why am I doing this? And that was for me, that was the question that got me, that prompted me to question my decisions of either which way like, “Yes, I want to do the Quarterfinals, or no, I don't want to do it.” But it was like, why am I doing this? And the moment I started to realize that all of the reasons why I was doing it was had to do with somebody else was the moment that I realized, well, now I'm putting everybody else's needs and perceptions of me above my own needs and that's got to stop. And so that for me bought a lot of clarity is like why am I doing this? And yeah, I think there's value in doing hard things. And sometimes the value in doing the hard thing is not achieving the hard thing but just the process of doing it could have there could there be growth for me and just doing the quarterfinal? Even though I knew I was never going to make it to semis? Of course, there could be, but at what cost? And I think that's what Natalie was speaking to is like, what is the cost associated with the goal, we can want the goal but if we're not willing to pay the cost that's associated with it, it's not right. And there's no shame in saying that.
And you might even end up abusing yourself in the process by all the things you think you shouldn't be.
Honestly, like, whenever we do something for someone else's approval, we never actually get what we want out of it–
Amber B 57:01
– Which is our own approval.
Amber B 57:03
What we want is our own approval
And also full circle is like, the reason why we like macros so much is that like, you see it all the time, Heidi. It’s the first time you actually ask yourself, “What do I want?” Not like what everyone else tells me to eat. Or what you think I should do. It's like, what do I want? What do I want to eat? What do I want to pursue for me? And not for anybody else. And there's so much power when you can validate yourself and have your own back and your goals because then everything just looks a little bit more delicious.
Yeah, yes. That's the number one reason everybody wants to lose weight is confidence. But that's where you find confidence. It's not in six-packs, it's not on the scale.
Amber B 57:38
So good. Well thanks, guys for coming on. And storytelling with me and asking such good questions, and being the amazing coaches that you are with the amazing mental six-packs that you have.
Oh my gosh, right back at you Amber
Thanks so much for being a quitter.
I know, you're such a great example.
Amber B 57:57
Yeah, all quiters. Awesome. Thanks for being here, guys.
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