Today's a big day- I am getting interviewed by my guest, Amber Smith! Listen to this episode to learn all about Coaching Academy, and why transformational coaching is so powerful. We talk about the difference between accountability, coaching, cheerleading, teaching, advice-giving, and transformational coaching. We dive deep into what that looks like, and why it's valuable for both you as a coach as well as the client. So without further ado, let's jump in!
Find show notes at bicepsafterbabies.com/255
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- Coaching Academy (1:59, 53:25, 57:24, 1:02:43, 1:04:40)
- Coaching (5:44, 16:19, 47:28)
- Different types of coaches (7:16, 8:52, 10:13, 12:24)
- How to identify success as a transformational coach (18:13)
- Role of coaches (19:38, 22:01, 24:04)
- Transformational Coaching (28:53)
- Ego and coaching (32:16)
- Difference between mentorship and coaching (36:01)
- The ability of control (46:22)
- Success isn't achieving a result, it's being able to maintain it (51:07)
- Difference between deep coaching and personal training (56:03, 56:31)
You're listening to Biceps After Babies Radio episode number 255.
Hello and welcome to Biceps After Babies Radio. A podcast for ladies who know that fitness is about so much more than pounds lost or PRs. It's about feeling confident in your skin and empowered in your life. I'm your host, Amber Brueseke, a registered nurse, personal trainer, wife, and mom of four. Each week, my guests and I will excite and motivate you to take action in your own personal fitness as we talk about nutrition, exercise mindset, personal development, and executing life with conscious intention. If your goal is to look, feel, and be strong and experience transformation from the inside out, you, my friend are in the right place. Thank you for tuning in, now let’s jump into today’s episode.
Amber B 0:47
Hey, hey, hey, welcome back to another episode of Biceps After Babies Radio. I am your host Amber Brueseke. And today I am bringing you a fantastic if I do say so myself, a fantastic episode. I was recently asked by my friend Amber Smith, she actually was on the podcast back in episode 53. But I was recently asked by her to come on her podcast and talk about transformational coaching. We have a lot of overlap in how we speak about coaching, and how we think about coaching. And so as soon as she asked me to come on, I said, heck yes, I knew the conversation that we were going to have was going to be powerful because I know Amber is a powerful force for good and there's a powerful coach herself. And I was not disappointed at all. So as soon as we wrapped up that interview, I begged her and said, “Please can I have the mp3 file of that interview because I want to put it on my podcast as well?” Because the conversation that we had was absolutely magical. So much was elicited in the conversation. She had such great questions, we dove deep into coaching and what I like to call transformational coaching.
Amber B 1:59
In the podcast episode, you will hear me talk about Oreo coaching versus Flambé coaching. So we get into some really fun concepts. But one of the reasons that this podcast episode was so apropos was that we are going to be opening the doors to Coaching Academy shortly. So if you are currently a coach, and you're wanting to, maybe you're feeling like you get on coaching calls with clients, and you don't really know where to take the call, or sometimes they come to you with problems, and you don't really know how to solve those problems or get past them, or you can see a client repeating the same bad behaviors over and over and over again but you can't figure out how to help them break that cycle, I will help you to be able to learn how to do that inside of Coaching Academy. And if you're someone maybe you're someone who you're you wouldn't even call yourself a coach yet, but you have had some sort of transformation yourself and if you're like most of my clients, once you have something that has happened for you, once you've had a transformation, you're the type of person who wants to share that with others. And so oftentimes clients will go through MACROS 101, or they will have some sort of experience with their own health and fitness journey and all they want to do is then help other people to be able to feel the way that they feel, have the success that they've had, feel the confidence that they are feeling and they have this little itch in them to be able to become a coach. So whether you are thinking about becoming a coach or you're a coach wanting to learn how to go deeper with your clients, Coaching Academy is for you. And we're having an informational masterclass. It's actually happening today if you're listening to this on the day that it's been released. So you can go to bicepsafterbabies.com/becomeacoach. And you can come to the masterclass today, if you sign up later, you're listening to this after the fact. If you go to that URL, you'll be able to be put on a list so that you'll at least get information about Coaching Academy and you can get the replay of that class. If you really want to make sure you get the replay just go ahead and send me a DM on Instagram @bicepsafterbabies and I'll be happy to get you that replay. As long as it's still up. It'll only be up for a little while after the class that we have today. So if you're listening to this like way after the fact, you can always get on the interest list for Coaching Academy at bicepsafterbabies.com/cert, C-E-R-T.
Amber B 4:15
So, today's a big day, we're gonna be having an informational class all about Coaching Academy. So you can listen to this podcast episode and learn a little bit more about why transformational coaching is so powerful, and how it's different from a lot of different other types of coaching. In this episode, I talk about the difference between accountability coaching, cheerleading versus teaching versus advice-giving, and then versus transformational coaching. And we really dive deep into what that looks like, and why it's valuable for both you as a coach as well as the client. And I'm just really excited for you to listen to this episode because get a little taste of the vision that I have moving forward with Coaching Academy and let me tell you, it's not small, it's not a small vision. We're going to shake some things up. So without further ado, let's jump into the interview where Amber Smith is interviewing me.
Amber Smith 5:09
All right, Amber, welcome to the podcast. I am so excited.
Amber B 5:14
Hey, thanks. Thanks, Amber. I'm so excited to be here.
Amber Smith 5:19
I'm super excited for the conversation we're gonna have, you and I have very similar beliefs, just for the audience jumping in. We're talking about the difference between like accountability coaching versus transformational coaching, and a lot of nuances that I think we both agreed on and want to kind of talk about. So I guess let's just get started right away, you shared a great metaphor before we record about dessert and coaching. So I'd love to just jump right in.
Amber B 5:44
Yeah, let's do it. So I think that you know, Amber was asking me ahead of time, what we want to dive into, and I really strongly feel that we throw around the word coaching and that we need to define what we're talking about when we mean coaching. Because just saying that everything in its dug is coaching does a disservice to the different levels and ways that coaching can be so incredibly powerful in somebody's life. And I gave them a metaphor that it's like this concept of desert, we can throw around, oh, it's desert. But when you get really specific, and you say, you know, an Oreo could be a desert, or a magnificent flambé that you go to that has this presentation with the smoke and stuff is. They're both deserts, but they're completely different experiences. And I see that a lot with people just tossing around this idea of like, oh, it's coaching. And coaching can happen on so many different levels and look so different. And so I think, helping people to understand the power that coaching can have, and I think sometimes when people use coaching, describe things like providing people accountability, or even teaching or advice-giving or cheerleading, it muddies the waters and doesn't help people to see that no real true transformational coaching can shift so many things for you, and can really change the future for you.
Amber Smith 7:05
Yeah. In your mind, what are the coaches' intentions if they're trying to provide accountability versus what are their intention if they're trying to create transformation?
Amber B 7:16
Well, we can get really deep into this. But I think a lot of reasons that, so I talked about different types of coaches, and maybe it would be helpful to kind of create some language around this and talk about these different types of coaching. So when I see and the reason that I know these types of coaches, is because I went through each of these stages, right? Like, this is the evolution that I saw in my ability to be able to coach. When I got into the space, it was in 2016. My story is I'm an accidental business owner, I never ever in a million years thought I would start a business. I had my own physical transformation, and just started sharing on Instagram and people started asking me to coach them, and I was like, “Sure, that sounds like funsies. Let's do that.” So that's where I started, right? It was just people started asking me to “coach” them, and I was like, “Sure, let's do it.” And when you just get started, there is a lack of fundamental understanding and knowledge of how to work with people which I think plagues a lot of new coaches. And so one of the easiest ways to be able to”correct provide coaching” is to realize that one of the reasons people aren't reaching their goals is because they don't follow through with things. And so the easy answer and solution that we come to are like, “Oh, I'll just provide them accountability, like, I'll just provide them external accountability. And then that'll fix all their problems, they'll be able to hit all their goals then”, right? And so I definitely started with that. And if people check in with me every week, and I text them throughout the week, then they're gonna stick to their macros, they're gonna be great, and they're going to be super successful. So you know, there's this level of accountability coaching that a lot of coaches fall into, especially initially.
Amber B 8:52
And then from there, a lot of times we get into, like, this cheerleader space, where it feels good to be celebrated. And so we think, “Oh, if I just like, tell them, they're doing a good job, they're gonna do more of that.” It's like that positive reinforcement, if I can to like, positively reinforce my client, then they're going to do great things. So you know, I went kind of from the accountability coach to the cheerleader, where it was, “Oh, you're doing so great, just amazing. I'm so proud of you.” And providing that external validation for them by just crossing my fingers that that would fix all their problems and just make them successful.
Amber Smith 9:27
And I believe in them enough.
Amber B 9:29
Yeah. Then you're gonna do a great thing. The problem with that, is what happens when they don't do it? Right now there's guilt and shame. And now they don't even want to talk to you because now you're gonna be disappointed in them. And that is a really damaging relationship for a coach and client because as a coach, I know the time that I can help you the very most is the time that you don't want to talk to me. It's when you feel bad about what you did or you did something, you know, the antithesis of what you said you were going to do. That is when I can help you the most as a coach, and if you build that, that transactional relationship of like, I'm really proud of you when you do good and then I'm really disappointed in you when you do bad. Clients are not going to open up to you, they're not going to tell you anything, I can be honest with you. And so then I can't help you as a coach.
Amber B 10:13
So we have an accountability coach, we have the cheerleader. And then we have the teacher, which I love as I come from. I mean, I didn't I wasn't ever like a formal teacher, but I T-aid my entire four years in college, I T-Aid physiology and pathophysiology and anatomy and nursing classes. And like all, I was a TA and so I've always loved teaching, and teaching is really powerful, you have to teach concepts. You and I both know, there are principles that you have to learn to grow your business, and there are principles, you have to learn to get in shape like you have to understand principles. We also know that everybody knows that they should brush their teeth and floss. And let's count how many people don't actually do that. Right? It's like knowledge isn't enough to actually change behavior permanently. And so I saw that a lot. I was like, well, if I just teach people about macros, and they understand the science, well, that's it, right? They're just gonna do it, because they understand the why, right? The why is important, but it's not everything. And so being a teacher is a valuable part of coaching, but it is not coaching. And then I would say, I went through that phase, because I was just like, “I just need to teach everybody about macros. That's it, and then they'll just be perfect to be great.” And then the next level, the fourth level, I feel like people get to, and I for sure was here for quite a while was the advice-giver is like you come to me and I will solve your problems, I will tell you exactly what to do.
Amber Smith 11:41
I am so wise.
Amber B 11:41
I am so wise, I have been in your shoes. So, of course, I know how to solve this problem, because I've done it before. Not taking into consideration the fact even if we are both on the same things, it's completely different contexts and really different people and situations, they're not actually stories. Yeah, but we make them feel like, oh, it's the same. Or you coach enough clients, and you feel like, “Well, I've seen enough of this. I've seen this thing so many times. And I know how to solve this problem.” Even if I maybe haven't gone through it, I've seen it in a lot of my clients. So that is how we saw that there is absolutely going to apply here. And that's it's not the case. And advice giving feels good for the advice giver. And so what I was gonna say earlier on is like, if we want to dive deep with this I feel like the reason we get stuck in the accountability coach, the cheerleader, the teacher, the advice giver is that it feels good for us. It feels comfortable and safe for us to stay in a place of let me just teach you. Let me just give you some accolades. Let me just give you some advice that feels comfortable and good for the coach. But coaching is not about the coach, coaching is about the client you're coaching.
Amber B 12:24
And so that last phase that I feel like I've finally been able to move into and understand and give language around and teach people how to do this is the idea of a transformational coach. And yeah, so transformational coach includes, but you got to teach that sometimes you're gonna give advice, like, sometimes you are going to like celebrate with your clients. And sometimes you are going to provide accountability. But it's not, that's not the whole package. It's the deep work that you're able to do, where you're able to show your client, their blind spots. You're able to help them apply what they're learning in the areas that they're not applying it, it's not telling your clients, it's not walking in ahead of your clients. It's linking arms with your clients and walking beside them through that experience and helping them to be in the driver's seat. My daughter is almost 15 and a half. And so she's getting her driver's license in like, three weeks. So taking her out driving a couple of times. And I think coaching is a lot like that. It's not where I'm sitting in the driver's seat, and she's sitting next to me and I'm driving the car. It's I am sitting next to her, and she's driving the car. And yeah, I'm there. And I'm kind of guiding her and I'm like helping her so she doesn't crash. But like she's driving the car. She has the wheel, she has the brake and the gas pedal. A lot of times I think coaches want to reach over and they want to grab the wheel and they want to turn the wheel and they're like, “Oh, let's just get over, just going over a little bit. Let me like push the gas for you. Let me just like take over the situation because I know how to drive.” Right, which I do. I know how to drive better than she knows how to drive. But if I don't let her learn that I'm robbing her of that experience of being able to become a good driver by taking over and I see a lot of coaches, especially beginning coaches get stuck in that place. They keep grabbing the wheel, they keep trying to take over and it robs the client of that experience of learning and growing themselves.
Amber Smith 14:43
Yeah, when it's coming from the belief that you need to be rescued. I need to save you because actually not powerful enough to do this. I feel like to be a transformational coach you have to come from the assumption that your client is a very powerful person.
Amber B 14:57
Yes. 100%. Yep. Yeah, and they can do this. And I think that's very different than being a cheerleader. Being a cheerleader is like the external validation of like, “You're so amazing, you got this, you can do this too, I believe in you”, right? That's very different than you believing that in your heart and having your coaching coming from that place of the assumption that they are powerful. The assumption that they are going to be successful, this assumption that they can do this. And I think that's one of the most challenging things as a coach because sometimes you have to hold that vision for your client before they even see it themselves.
Amber Smith 15:34
Yep. Without dipping in. So like you said, sometimes we cheerlead, but I feel like sometimes if you're like, so sold on the vision, it's easy to like, “I know, you can do this”, it’s not like that coaching either. That's great that you know, but like, I'm really struggling.
Amber B 15:51
Yep. Right. That's like the grabbing-the-wheel thing. It's like, if you're such a good driver, I know you can be a good driver. But you're like, Yeah, I have your hand on the wheel? Like, how the heck are they going to be a good driver if you're trying to take over everything?
Amber Smith 16:01
Yeah. So I'm gonna ask you a really hard question. Because I feel like deconstructing what we do is really hard. Like, okay, you became this transformational coach like you can identify that, but like, how do you deconstruct what you do well?
Amber B 16:15
How do I deconstruct what I do well in terms of coaching?
Amber Smith 16:17
As a transformational coach, yeah.
Amber B 16:19
So I was actually just before we got on this podcast, I was actually in a meeting with all of my coaches, we are debriefing our last coaching experience, and I was coaching one of the coaches because that's really my role now is like helping coach my coaches. And we were having this conversation because she was really struggling with her clients and trying to guide them through it. And she was feeling a lot of resistance that they weren't doing the things that they said they were going to do, they weren't going through the content, they weren't showing up in like way. And she's like, “I can't do this for you.” And we had a conversation around the role of a coach and what I got from her, and some of the observations I made was that she was coming into the calls with an agenda with a way that things were supposed to be and kind of like you were saying that kind of one up where it's like, “I'm the coach, I'm gonna tell you what to do. Now you have to do it, and then you don't do it.” Now we get into a power struggle with like, well, why the heck do you do it? And then they try to make themselves right by like, well, I had all these things. And then it was like, well, that's not an excuse. And now you're in this like a power struggle. And so I asked her the question, I said, What is coaching? Like, what is your job as a coach? We really landed on your job as a coach is to not tell the clients what to do, it's not to get them to listen to certain modules. It's to show them their blind spots. And when people can see their blind spots, they have a fuller picture, they have more options, and they're able to make better decisions. And so if you think about it, in terms of literally a blind spot, if I'm looking forward, I can't see beyond my periphery, right? So I can see the world in front of me, and I can map it out. And I can say there's this decision, this decision, this decision that I can make, but I can't see it all that's behind my head. When somebody can help show me what's behind my head, they can show me my blind spots, they can show me that there's a whole world behind my head. Now I have more options, I have more insight, I have more clarity, I have more ways that I could go, and I'm able to make those decisions better.
Amber B 18:13
And so I think, to circle back around to your original question, how do you identify success as a transformational coach? It is, did I give my client a fuller map of everything that's available to them? And I think as finite beings, we can't even really do this, right? Because we are infinite. And so we're still working within a 3D context. But am I opening their eyes more to that infinite possibility that is available to them? And if I'm doing that, then I'm doing my job. And that's my goal. I want clients to leave with a more rich picture of who they truly are at a core because it gives them more power, it gives them more options, it gives them just more ideas of where they could go from there.
Amber Smith 19:00
I love that. I remember something you said a long time ago that you're like, I mean, I help people with macros and weight loss and fitness. But really my secret agenda is to help women know that they can achieve things. I feel like that's like all coaches like secret agendas, right? We want our clients to feel powerful, and I love that. But I think it takes a lot of like self-help. I think great coaches have good self-awareness of like, am I accidentally coming up with my own agenda so that my client gets what I think they should get out of my coaching? As you said, there are infinite possibilities. I don't know what they're gonna get, or where they're gonna go, but I trust that by showing them their blind spot, they'll go where they need to go.
Amber B 19:38
Yeah, we don't help people in the way that we want to help them. We help them in the way they want to be helped. Right? That's the hard thing about coaching is like we sometimes we gotta get rid of that as I know better. And I think that's a really prideful and hard thing to let go of sometimes because you may know better. You may, you may think you know better. But I think when it comes down to it, as we said earlier, even if we're in the exact same situation, it's not actually the exact same situation. Never is exactly the same situation. And so we put these blinders on, we're like, “Well, I know exactly what you do because I have been in your situation, I've been in your shoes, I know it.” But we had to pull back and remember, like, no, you've actually never been in this person's shoes with all of their experiences leading up to this point with the context that they're in, with the family that they're in, with the situation that they're in, the money that they're, whatever it is, you've never been in that situation. And so it's humbling. Like you have to be humble as a coach to not feel like it. And here's the thing that I always tell my new coaches, because my new coaches, as I'm training them, they're always so worried about getting it wrong. Like, what if someone asked me a question I don't know the answer to? Yeah. What if like, they come with me and I'm like, I don't know. And I always remind I said, That's not your job. Your job is to not know the answers. That's not your job. That's your client's job, your job is to guide them and to help them and to ask them questions and to help them like get to that place. But you can look and that's a freeing place to get rid like to get to. I don't have to know that I don't have to have all the answers. I can show up for this person who's in front of me, and I can just connect with them. And I can guide them without having to like be in my head. I can be present with them instead of being in my head like, “Oh, my gosh, when she asked me what I don't know, I don't know what she should do.” What? What did she do this, like, you couldn't let go of that. And you can just be present with the person who's in front of you and you can walk side by side with them.
Amber Smith 21:30
Yeah, I think a powerful skill set for coaches to bite your tongue. Truly, like, you don't need to worry about what you're gonna say. I really love this. Jodie Moore posted something that was like, if you're a coach, stop spending time being wise and having the answers and spend more time being deeply confused.
Amber B 21:50
That's so good.
Amber Smith 21:54
I'm so curious why you said that you know, and so, like this sage that has all the answers.
Amber B 22:01
Yeah. But that's what we think we think that's what people want. And it's hard because it's what people think they want as well. Yeah, this is the tricky part is like, people think that they want somebody to just tell them the answers, right? They just give me a fitness or just give me a program to follow, Amber. Just tell me what to eat. Just tell me how many times to go to the gym, like just tell me these things. They think that's what they want. But in the end, it doesn't actually create the transformation they're really looking for. So there is that enrollment piece of having to help clients recognize. I know, you just want me to tell you what to do, I get it. It would be so easy if you could just outsource your life to somebody else and then you can blame them when it goes wrong. It's like you told me to do this, you told me to start this business, you told me to make this offer. And now that the responsibility is on you. So it's easier for the client to do that. Like I get why you want that. So it's part of our job as coaches to enroll clients in why I know you want this, but it's not actually going to get you to where you want to go. And when you can take back that power and that control, then that's actually going to produce the result that you want.
Amber Smith 23:08
Yeah, I was thinking about like, the thing behind the thing. Like, why are you wanting me to tell you what to do? What's your belief, you're saying that. You probably have a belief, like our clients have a belief that they don't know what they're doing, or they mess it up or whatever and that's what we want to get to as the coat.
Amber B 23:27
Right, because if you don't solve that, none of the other things I teach you are gonna matter. So you're always going to come back to this, like, “Oh, everybody else has the answers. I'll have to ask for permission to do everything”, and that is the problem. And if you don't solve that root problem, it doesn't matter how great your macros are, it doesn't matter how awesome your offer is, like, if you come from that place, it's never gonna work.
Amber Smith 23:52
Yeah. So like, what are your thoughts about yourself when you're coaching, like, I know that you said you try to stay out of your head, but like, the assumptions that you have when you go into a session?
Amber B 24:04
Well, I always, I teach this to my client or to my coaches, I'm always coming from this person is going to be successful, right, their success is inevitable, like, I'm always coming from, like, whatever they want, is absolutely 100% possible for them. And I think that's a really important place to come from as a coach, because if you come from the context of like, oh, it's gonna work, oh, if you can do this. It's gonna come across in the way that you coach and the experience of your clients. So that is definitely a context that I always am approaching coaching from, it's like, the person who's in front of me can do the thing that they want to do. And my job is to help them figure out the path to be able to get there. I do really try to stay out of my head. And I think I do a pretty good job of, I call it active listening. And that is where you really are out of your head and you really are with the person, and you're present, and you're like there. We've created maps with our words, we create a world with our words. And part of coaching is figuring out the map that the person is giving you in their words. And in order to do that, you have to be paying attention. You have to be listening to how they're describing things and how they're speaking about things. And then you have to ask them questions to be able to make the map a little bit clearer so that you can figure out okay, what map are we working with here? And from their map, not from my map from their map? How can we get them to where they want to go? And so a lot of times again, I'm staying out of my head, what I think doesn't matter what my map is, doesn't matter. I'm really trying to get from the client, what their map is, what their understanding is, with where they're at with something so that we can fill in the holes and move forward.
Amber Smith 25:54
Yeah. It's almost like, forgetting everything that you know for the moment, and really going into what they're thinking and believing.
Amber B 26:05
Yeah, absolutely. So it's hard to like you said, bite your tongue.
Amber Smith 26:11
So if someone's listening to this, and they're like, “Crap, I am totally a cheerleader, or I'm totally an accountability coach”, like, what do they do?
Amber B 26:21
Yeah, it's I think awareness is always the biggest thing, whenever I teach this concept, inevitably, people will like, oh, my gosh, that's me. And again, I can only talk about these different types of coaches because I've literally been every single one of these. This was like, this was my progression. And I realized there was, there was another level. And so I think, first of all, just being able to see it, and like you said, getting clear on like, why you stay there? Like, what does cheerleading do for you as a coach? Well, it's easy. Like it feels really easy to be like, “You go girl, you're amazing.” So that it's like getting clear on what causes me to go into cheerleading? Is it because I don't know how else to deal with it is it because it's easy, is it because it just makes everybody feel warm, fuzzies inside, and we just like to feel warm fuzzies? And then I think if you're wanting to grow past that, if you recognize, okay, I recognize I'm at the cheerleader, but I don't want to stay here. There's nothing wrong with being a cheerleader. I don't want to stay here, though. So how do we move beyond past that? One of the ways I talk with my clients about this idea of push-pull, and that a lot of times we are wanting to go towards something. So we're being pushed towards something. And sometimes we're trying to be away from something and different people respond differently. Some people like to move away from pain, and sometimes people like to move toward pleasure. And so I think getting clear on that of yourself. Are you more motivated to move towards pleasure or are you more motivated to move away from the pain that can help you figure out how to continue to grow? If you are someone who moves away from pain, and that tends to be your default, you can start to get clear on like, what is the cost of being the cheerleader? We kind of talked about a little bit of like, if you're just the cheerleader, what happens when somebody brings you something that isn't good, that you're not going to really cheer? What's the cost of that?
Amber Smith 28:20
That's most of the coaching.
Amber B 28:22
Amber Smith 28:23
Working through things that aren't great.
Amber B 28:24
They aren't great. If they were just doing all the great things they wouldn't need to coach. But that's the cost. That's the cost of just being the cheerleader. So if you're someone who moves away from paying, getting clear on like, what's the cost of staying put and not growing beyond being the cheerleader? If you're somebody who moves towards pleasure, you can start to say, “Well, what's that next step of like, being more of a teacher or even being more of the advice giver? Or even making the leap to being a transformational coach? What is the benefit for me? What is the benefit for my clients?”
Amber B 28:53
And I would say, like, we kind of hit on this again, but I just want to make it really clear. As you move and become a more transformational coach, there is a benefit for your clients 100%. But there's also a huge benefit for you. Because when you realize I don't have to solve everything, I don't have to be the sage, I don't have to have all the answers. I get to just tell my clients all the time, coaching is connecting with another human being. Like, literally it's like showing up in service, connecting with another human being, expanding their map of the world, and getting out of the way. That's coaching. And that's freeing as a coach to realize, oh, that's my job. I don't have to know everything. That's really powerful for you. So becoming a transformational coach, if you're someone who wants to move towards pleasure becoming a transformational coach is beneficial for your clients because they get better results. And when they get better results. They tell people and when they tell people, you build a business without having to do a whole lot of marketing. This is literally how I build my business from the ground up. I sucked at marketing for a really, really long time. I've gotten a lot better at it because I've learned, but I sucked at marketing for a really long time. And I had a booming business. And the reason was is because I got clients' results. And they told their friends, and they told her sisters, and they told her moms and I just had client referrals. So when you become a transformational coach, and you get clients, long-term lasting results that help people, and you don't have to be a marketer. You can stay more in that like coaching. Word-of-mouth marketing is the best type of marketing.
Amber Smith 30:26
Amen. Go back and re-listen to that again, and again. So good, especially for one on one coaching. I feel like it's such an amazing model. Because I think one of the, I guess cognitive dissonance pieces in all of this is a lot of people who are one on one coaches, we're also content creators, we have a podcast, we write posts on Instagram, we write emails, and we are teaching, we are cheering that people on, we are advice-giving, and then we get on a call with a client and it's a different skill set.
Amber B 30:58
Yep. 100%. Yeah. So it's like the skill set that got the client to come to you is not the skill, the same skill set that is going to get them the results that they need. And so like I said, we don't want to get rid of teaching or advice-giving or cheerleading or accountability. Like, I'm not asking you to get rid of any things, I'm asking you to include them and transcend into also being able to get to that deeper transformational level. So that you have a better experience, your clients have a better experience. And that more transformation is created between the two of you, the magic, you talk a lot about like the magic that can be created in that space of that sacred space of coaching clients. And that comes when you get past those lower levels of “coaching”, you get past the Oreo level of coaching.
Amber Smith 31:39
The Oreo level of coaching, I love it.
Amber B 31:42
I'm gonna trademark that.
Amber Smith 31:50
I think part of the underlying message too, is that you have to drop your ego, because I think a lot of being a transformational coach is like, there's not a lot of glories. Sometimes you even have to say, kind of like a spicy question where like, they might not like what you're asking them, but it's creating that, like observing their blind spots, like you're opening their mind. And they might have resistance to that. Can you speak to that a little bit?
Amber B 32:16
Yes. So I want to share something you and I both have been coached by James Wedmore. I'm in business coaching. And he asked this question once which I thought was a fantastic question. It is about the idea of like, ego and coaching. And he said, “If you worked with someone famous, semi-famous, and you got them an amazing transformation, let's say you're a business coach, and you like literally help them build their business to like multi, seven figures and you really help them do it. And they didn't tell a single soul that you help them to build their business or get a six pack or whatever. Would you be okay with that?” And if the answer is no, that's the problem, right? That's the ego part of coaching needing to be recognized as needing to be the reason for someone's ability to create results. And so that was a great reflective question for me to think about if I was able to get someone this fantastic result, and they never told a single soul. Would I be okay with that? And I had to sit with that and really think, would I be okay with that? And the answer I came to was yes. Because it's not about me. I don't need the fame. I don't need the glory, I want to help people. But it can be hard to put that ego aside and be like, “Well, what about, I did this all for you, I helped you achieve this great result.” But bringing that ego into coaching is never it it blunts your ability to be a good coach when you bring your ego into it.
Amber Smith 33:46
Yeah, I think in that thread, would you be okay, if your client never told you?
Amber B 33:52
Amber Smith 33:55
It's hard because you also can't evaluate if your coaching is working or not. But just from the ego piece, like, I think that those are two different conversations, but like from the ego piece, would you be okay, if you never found out about the results that your client created or didn't create?
Amber B 34:10
Yes, I think that's really good because I think a lot of the work that you and I do is not immediate. It gets started with us. But it's a process. And so if you're coaching someone for eight weeks or 12 weeks or even half a year, you may not see the fruits of your labor and that's okay. It needs to be okay. Because it's again, it's not about you, it's about what part you're playing in helping another individual, not because you want the fame or glory for helping that individual, but because you're coming from a heart of service.
Amber Smith 34:47
Yeah. And you want them to take all the credit because one of the things that I think you and I both agree with is that coaching is a tool, and I identify as a coach but I also think coaching is a skill set not necessarily like an identity because I'm not always a coach. So when I'm using the tool of coaching with a client, right, like, I don't think it's always instant. And the more important thing is that we're anchoring in for our client that they're the person that uses the tool of coaching. Like your client. Let's say that she joins your program and she signs up for coaching. She's the one that made the decision to get support. She's the one that decided to get coaching, she decided to take the coaching, right? And as she creates the results from the coaching, it's all her.
Amber B 35:32
Yeah, It's like I can hand you a hammer but once the hammer leaves my hand, you could lay the hammer on the ground, or you can like use it to build something. It's even though I handed you the hammer, you're the one who wields it, and makes something with it.
Amber Smith 35:48
Exactly. Let's make it the glory.
Amber B 35:52
Will you speak a little bit? Because I love how you differentiate between mentorship and coaching. Will you speak to that?
Amber Smith 36:01
Yeah. Well, I think it's kind of like we talked to a camera for your recording yet. So maybe, either way, the way that I see mentorship is like, this is what worked for me. These are the pitfalls that I had to struggle with. These are the things that I learned. This is the way I thought about this so that you can learn from my mistakes. So you can learn from anything that went well. I think there's an element of teaching, I think there's less thought of, maybe I can save you time, maybe I can help you avoid mistakes. Versus like coaching is like, you might not know anything about me, what my story has been, what I've struggled with, and I can still create a powerful conversation for you. And I don't even need to know what you're going through. Because I don't need the answers. I feel like in mentorship, there's this element of like, asking you shall receive. Do you know what I mean? Like if you need to know, like, some of the thinking of some mentorship type questions that I get is like, Hey, when did you know you're ready for Kajabi? You know, I mean, yeah. Sometimes you don't need to go into like, why are you asking? And I think that's why discernment is so important. Because I'm sure in weight loss, it's the same thing. Or fitness, even like, it's like trying to gain muscle, right? Like, they're like, hey, did you have you thought through? Like, do you like this product or this product better? Or like, when do you like, doesn't matter what type of questions you like, you can give them an empowered answer that serves them. That's how I kind of distinguish is like if I answer their question, is it going to serve them? Or because sometimes I know, I need to go into coaching because if I give them the answer, it's actually doing them a disservice.
Amber B 37:40
A disservice. Yeah. Yes. And they might not see it as a disservice yet. And that's, that's the hard part sometimes because clients again think I just want someone to tell me what to do. And so when you don't just tell them what to do, like, you have to be really clear on like, here's why I'm not just telling you what to do, because I know you want it, I know you think it would help you. But I'm not thinking of just this moment, I'm thinking of the long term. And I can see that it would be a disservice to you to just spoon-feed you because then this happens all the time in fitness coaching. And honestly, this is one of the things that made me move through the phases and into transformational coaching. I did not want to be that coach where clients came and they got success with me while they were with me. And when they left, they regain their weight. That is not the type of coach that I want to be. And so when I saw that happening, that was like, “Oh, my, I'm doing something wrong, because my clients are getting results while they're with me. And when they leave, they lose the results.” That's not them. That's like I'm doing something, I'm not helping them in the way that I want to help them. And so it really forced me to get clear and figure it out. I'm serving them in the way they think they want to be served but not in the way that's going to help them in the long run. And that was because I was just telling them what to do. I was like, “Okay, change your macros this week, okay, do this next week, okay? You know, this is how you're going to do it, and go do this X, you know, these five workouts”, and that worked really well. And they got results, and they were awesome. And then they left and then they stopped doing all those things, because I wasn't providing that structure or advice or, you know, cheerleading, whatever for them. And so being able to move into that place where I want to do clients' long-term results, and that sometimes meant not doing what they wanted, what they thought they wanted at the moment. Because I knew in the long run that was going to create that long-term transformation that they want and I want for them.
Amber Smith 39:24
I think this speaks to like you have really clean thinking about your clients, which I like is a testament to the work that you do on yourself. Because not everyone does, right? Like fewer people have muddled thinking. But I know one of the beliefs that you have, and the things that you've articulated is you don't want your clients to be with you forever.
Amber B 39:41
Right? 100% Yeah, no, I believe that. That's a failure on my part.
Amber Smith 39:47
Amber B 39:49
I feel that if you need me forever I failed as a coach is a way that this is my belief, right? That's the belief that I choose to hold because my goal isn't to be your sage. My goal is for you to be your own sage. And if you feel like you always need me then I haven't. I haven't succeeded there.
Amber Smith 40:06
Yeah. And especially the need, the feeling of like, I can't do this without you. I think some coaches secretly like to hear that.
Amber B 40:14
Oh, of course, it's validating.
Amber Smith 40:16
Codependent. Like, oh, they like I'm important. I'm special or whatever. Versus like, I'm the hammer. They picked me up. They use me they got results. And they're the hero.
Amber B 40:32
They're the hero. Yeah, it's the difference between the hero and the guide.
Amber Smith 40:43
We want to be the guide. We do not want to be the hero.
Amber B 40:46
Yeah, absolutely. 100%.
Amber Smith 40:49
Yeah, I feel like you can't be a transformational coach if you struggle with codependency because you'll like subconsciously not truly serve them because you're like, but if you get too powerful to succeed, you won't need me anymore.
Amber B 41:06
Yeah, I just did a podcast episode on people-pleasing. And that idea of needing that external validation comes up a lot. And I remember a client, I said, a client, it might have been a coaching, like a Coaching Academy client asked me it was like, Have you ever had a client like, not be happy with your coaching? Have you ever like worried that clients weren't satisfied with your coaching or happy with your coaching? And I thought about it for a minute. And I said, “No, I've never had that experience because I don't make up stories in my head about clients' experiences with me.” If someone gives me feedback, I absolutely will take feedback. And if I get feedback, especially from multiple sources, I'm going to take that in, and I'm going to evaluate it and make shifts based on it. So it's not that I'm not I'm ignoring everything people tell me. But I only listen to things that people actually tell me. And I think a lot of coaches sit in coaching calls and they're in their head, and they're like, “Oh, my gosh, they don't like me, I'm not saying good things. I'm not being effective”, it's all about them, them, them because they're looking for that external validation from their client to tell them that they're a good coach, rather than coming into the conversation, and knowing and believing that they are a good coach, that's another thing. I come in believing I'm a kick-ass coach. Like, I walk into every coaching situation, knowing that I can provide value. And we can kind of get into like a little bit of the business side of it. People ask me where my business took off because I had a pretty big trajectory with an upswing in my business revenue. My business took off financially when I truly believed that I could walk into any coaching situation, and provide value. And once I had that confidence in me that you give me any person, and I can serve them, I can help them, I can get them results. And I came in with that competence, and my business skyrocketed. And so that is a frame of reference that I come into with every conversation, I know that I can help you. And when you show them that it's not about me, it's not about me in my head. It's not about me worried about whether you like me, or whether you're going to say bad things about me. It's about like, I know, I can serve you and I'm showing up in that place of service.
Amber Smith 43:21
Yeah, cuz it's not even about you. You don't walk in and not about me.
Amber B 43:24
Yeah, it's not about me. It's about my client.
Amber Smith 43:27
Yeah. How did you get there?
Amber B 43:30
Get to that place? That's a really good question. I think there definitely is an element of practice and an element of having seen enough times that I was in enough different contexts that I was able to provide value. But at the end of the day, I just think it's a decision. Like, I can say, yeah, I saw results, right, I was able to get clients results, and in a couple of different contexts, and you see enough of that, and you're like, okay, I can do this. But I don't think it's actually that because if it was, there would have to be like, once you get 15 clients, then you will feel like you can serve them. At some point, it just became a decision that if I wanted to be the type of coach that was able to serve thousands and thousands and thousands of people, I had to decide that I could serve thousands and thousands of people. And it just became a decision that I was like, I can do this. And you know, it's like the Be-to-Have model you decide who you want to be. And then you show up in that new way. And once you know, you're able to provide that value to people.
Amber B 44:39
We were just in, like I said, we just had coaches meeting before this. And we were talking about coming into, I was talking with a coach who was feeling like her coaching calls weren't really going anywhere because the client wasn't doing the work and we elicited that she was coming in kind of with an agenda. And I gave her this question. I was like, “What was your question in your back pocket?” Because this is the next time, you're going to open up a coaching conversation, this is how you're gonna open it up. You're gonna say, Jenny, I am so excited about our coaching conversation today. I just know, we're gonna create magical things together. So I want to ask you the question that's gonna guide the whole session. What can I provide for you today? How can I be of service to you today? And she was like, “I've never asked that question before” because she comes in with, like, we need to do this. And we didn't do this. And we're like, No, we're gonna do this. And then it's like, this is the way we're gonna run the call rather than a, I'm just gonna show up, and I'm gonna serve this person who's in front of me, and I'm going to ask them, How do you want to be served? And then I'm going to serve them in that way?
Amber Smith 45:41
Yeah, they're gonna tell you exactly what they want to work on.
Amber B 45:45
It's like, Why try to guess or like, create a plan and just like, ask them what they want, and then deliver that in the call?
Amber Smith 45:51
Like, it's revolutionary. But because we get on our heads about being like the sage, right? Like, I have to come up with these cool ideas or whatever the agenda. And I think, for me, the question I asked was like, what would make this call powerful for you today, and I love it because it makes them stop and think because they're like, I don't know what would make this call powerful. And then we get right to the issue. Because whatever you're up with, they're telling you what they want to help like you said like they're telling you what's going to be powerful.
Amber B 46:22
Yeah. It's also an ability to control, right? If you don't feel super confident in your coaching and your ability to provide service, then if you can control the call, and you only go down the avenues that you feel comfortable with, then you're safe. So that's why making the decision that you are a good coach and that you can support and provide value in any direction that the client takes it, then you can show up and really ask them what would make this powerful, and then you can co-create that together. If you aren't sure about your ability to do that. You want to just say, here are the five lanes that I feel comfortable and confident in, please pick one of the five but if one of those five is not what the client actually needs. Now, they're feeling like they're not getting what they came for.
Amber Smith 47:04
Yeah. Or what was really like urgent for them to work through that specific day, right? Because a lot of our clients aren't super self-aware. That's why they want coaching. We can provide for them. And so I think shining light back on them turning the mirror, right, like, helping them see what they want to work on is a gift alone, like I didn't know, that's what was on my mind, that was so helpful to know what I was thinking.
Amber B 47:28
Yeah, and recognizing, too, that a lot of times, one of the things that good coaches can do is to get to the root problem of like, what actually is keeping them stuck, which is not usually what people think is keeping them stuck. And oftentimes what clients will present to you is the symptom, they present you the symptom because they know the symptom, they see the symptom, and that's what's causing them problems. And then your job as a coach is to be able to take that symptom and go deeper, figure out, okay, you're showing me you're saying you're struggling with hitting your macros. That's great. That's the symptom. That's not actually the problem. So let's together, let's dig a little deeper. And let's figure out what the actual problem is. And if people were able to do that themselves, they wouldn't need coaching. So that's why allowing the client to speak first and say, “Hey, this would make it really powerful for me if I could figure out why weekends are so hard for me to stick to my macros.” Fantastic. Like, let's start there, but we're not gonna just stay there. We're not gonna just be like, well, let's come up with some three options for how you can fix your macros on the weekend, we're gonna be like, well, let's dig deeper into why that's been a struggle for you, what's underlying that so that we can come from that deeper, transformational level?
Amber Smith 48:30
I feel like what you just said, makes you very unique in the fitness space.
Amber B 48:34
Yeah, for sure. There's a lot of advice-giving in the fitness space, specifically.
Amber Smith 48:39
Because I think it's easy.
Amber B 48:42
It's easy. Yeah, just hit your macros. You didn't do it over the weekend. Just do it. And so this is the problem that I have with that idea is that it makes the problem the person. The person now is the problem. Oh, you got to track well, you just need to do better. Well, you just need to try harder. Well, you just need to have more motivation. You need to have more focus you like and it makes the person feel like they're the problem. Instead of recognizing that like them trying to do what other people are telling them that isn't unique or customized to them and isn't even decided by them, right? There's no autonomy in that you just told me to do these five workouts. That's the actual problem. And so when we can get that, oh, I'm not. It's not because I just lacked motivation. I just need more motivation. That's what everyone tells me. It's like, “Amber, I need to have more motivation.” I'm like, “Well, the first problem is that you think that motivation is going to solve your problem. It's not actually your problem.” But it's easy for fitness influencers, just be like, it's not hard. Just do it. Just eat less, and work out more, and that's the way to get success. And it's so damaging for so many women because they really take that on and be like, Well, I just suck like I can't do that. I can't work out. It's a flaw, I'm fundamentally flawed. And I guess I just suck. And that breaks my heart, right? That breaks my heart that women feel that way about themselves when in reality, I always use the analogy of like, it's like a round peg into a square hole, and then get mad at the round peg because it doesn't fit into a square hole like the problem is not the peg. The problem is you got to figure out what's going to work for you. And a lot of times that is doing this deeper work. I was talking to my husband about this earlier. Weight loss is absolutely gold that I support. But if you are trying to lose weight in order to be whole, it will never be successful. If you can be whole first, then great, let's go and do the weight loss. But a lot of women try to jump into weight loss before they feel whole or worthy or like they're enough. And that's going to be a recipe for disaster. And so a lot of things that I'm working with clients is like, yeah, I got you, I got you. If you want to lose weight, I got you, we'll get there. But let's make it a successful journey. Let's make it an enjoyable journey. And to do that we have to start with some of this deeper stuff.
Amber Smith 51:03
Do you feel like doing that deep work slows down the results?
Amber B 51:07
No, it actually speeds it up. Because instead of losing and regaining and losing, regaining and losing regaining, like I have women who have been doing that your cycle for 40 years? That's a long time. So yeah, I know, you think it takes a little bit longer to like, do some of this work upfront, but it doesn't take four years. We can get you there a whole lot faster than four years. So yeah, that's the fallacy and thinking is like, oh, it's gonna take me a whole lot longer. Because I got to do all this. Like, I get through all this, like emotional work and this thought work and like things that Amber's gonna take me through. But in reality, it speeds up the process, because instead of yo-yoing, this is a really important point. And it's a kind of fantasy, but success isn't achieving a result, it's being able to maintain it. So I don't care if you hit your goal weight the next day, and you're never that goal weight again. Like that's not a success, a success has actually been able to, it's like building a business. It's like, okay, so you signed one $10,000 client, and you never ever signed another client yet, that's not a success. Right? Even if you want to design a $10,000 client, it's not a success, if you can't like replicate it and repeat it and keep going. And it's the same thing with fitness. And so a lot of times people think, oh, it's going to be slower because I'm gonna like hit my goal weight slower. But it never was just about hitting the goal weight, it's about what happens after you hit the goal weight. And if you're someone who wants to lose weight and maintain it, that's a different process. And it requires a different way to go about it.
Amber Smith 52:34
Yeah, I think what you're speaking to as well, which I agree with is like, it's not just from getting to point A to point B, it's the way we create point B, like the process that you go through because there's a lot of unhealthy ways we can recreate results in business we can create with open or like relationships in our bodies. And like, there are people that subscribe to that's like the ends justify the means. And I don't think a transformational coach is described to that ideology.
Amber B 53:02
No, I think you're absolutely right. There are a million ways to get from A to B. And some of those are a lot healthier and more sustainable than other ways.
Amber Smith 53:11
Yeah. So good. Anything else you want to say about transformational coaching?
Amber B 53:25
One of my goals and one of my visions for Coaching Academy where we teach coaches how to come from this transformational level and be able to go deep with their clients. One of my goals is to change the fitness industry. And you kind of alluded to this of like, this makes me very unique in this industry that is so focused on end results and fast and just do it and let me give you a plan and have you follow it. And I just want to like shake up the industry so bad, and really create a team and an army of coaches that are out there supporting clients in a fundamentally different way when it comes to achieving their health and fitness goals. And it's a big dream, it feels even scary to kind of like put that out there like, but I want to shake up an industry like I really want this like wake-up call for people when it comes to their health and fitness. It's not that you just need more motivation. It's not that you're fundamentally flawed. It's not that you just need to stick to your eating plan better. But there are these things that are underlying that if we can get to the root, they not only shift your fitness journey, but they shift your entire life with a number of women who have gone through MACROS 101 and come back and are like a better parent like I'm a better wife, I'm a better community member because of the coaching I received, right? I didn't coach any of them on their marriage or their kids or any of the things but the way that I coach translates into other areas of their lives. And so that's why I always say you know what I do is about fitness, but it's not actually about fitness. It's about so much more. So I really want to shake up the fitness industry and create a shift in the way that people see themselves and see their fitness goals. Because I think fitness can be a really fun playground. Business is a really fun playground too. To me, it's like business becomes this container for growth, the same thing. It's a place to play, it's a place to experiment. It's a place to grow yourself. And I think that's why worldly marriage is another great one. Marriage is a fantastic place to like grow yourself. And so I think fitness can be a really fantastic playground to be able to have that experience, especially for people who don't have businesses, I feel like entrepreneurship is just like, personal development on steroids. But I think fitness can be another realm for people to be able to have that same personal development experience that is in business. And so I just see it as such a right playground, if people come from it from the right perspective, to be just as a right playground for learning more about themselves developing and doing hard things because they think hard things grow less.
Amber Smith 56:03
Yeah. I think what you just described to me is the difference between like deep coaching and personal training. Personal training is like teaching, advising, and cheerleading. And it's like you said, it's great if you're working with a personal trainer, but like what happens when you go out on vacation? What happened? I feel like that's why coaching is so powerful is like, you're really empowering the person that no matter where they are, they're the type of person that can get the results. That's different.
Amber B 56:31
Yep. Yeah, you're creating, you're helping them to shift their identity rather than just their behaviors. Now, a lot of fitness coaching especially focuses on behaviors. And we know that shifting behaviors isn't transformational, it can last for a while, and it can cause some changes. But if we're only shifting on a behavioral level, and we're not shifting on an identity level, it won't ever stick. And so what you're speaking to is this idea of like, as you work with clients, we're focusing on that identity level, we're focusing on shifting who they're being, they're showing up the frame that they're coming from, and that creates, when you can share the identity, it creates long term change. Behaviors make a short-term change, but identity makes a long-term change.
Amber Smith 57:14
Yes. Just because of how I talk, like, I know, my listeners are gonna be like, yes. Like resonating with that. So tell us about your Coaching Academy.
Amber B 57:24
Yeah, so in Coaching Academy, we take this world of transformational coaching, and marry it with how we get clients' physical results as well. And so it's there are two phases, one of the phases is about how we create customized nutrition plans for clients that drive the physical results that they want. And then the second part of it is all about, okay, now that we know the science, right? Because there's a science and an art. And so you have to understand the science. So once we understand the science of nutrition, and those fundamentals, then we can really get into the good stuff of like, Okay, why don't people follow through? Why do people self-sabotage? What beliefs are driving the actions that people are taking? Right? Here's the symptom. Okay, we can see the symptom, they see the symptom, I see the symptom, that's not actually the problem. So what they're presenting you as the symptom, and how do we get down to the root cause of what is actually keeping that person stuck once they have the knowledge and understanding? And so I teach clients how to elicit those beliefs, how to dig deep, find out what the root causes, and then be able to help their clients start to shift it so that they are able to step into that new version of themselves, they're able to, like you said, take responsibility for their journey and be able to shift on that core identity level. So that the results that they want to create become easy. And so I teach courses I do that we do, you know, practice pods, where we get them to practice and we provide feedback. And it's been such an exciting new adventure to build. In my business, I'm a little bit weird when it comes to like entrepreneurship. I'm not a typical entrepreneur. I'm very focused. So a lot of entrepreneurs are a kind of shiny object syndrome. And they want to build like five things, and then they like, half build this thing. And then they go, that's not me, I'm like, focus. So my goal was to build MACROS 101 and get that successful. And that took me four years to do that. And finally, like, it's out of place, it's super successful. And so now I was like, Okay, what's next? And that's when Coaching Academy was started. So that's why you baby, that's what we're growing and building and I have big dreams for shaking up the fitness world.
Amber Smith 59:37
And I really resonate with that because I think that like you, we need more identity-level work. And I feel like it is a disruptive idea for a traditional teaching industry mostly teaching people knowledge versus doing the deep work. So I'm really excited.
Amber B 59:56
Yes, and I think that is where the world is going. It is like we are in an age where knowledge has never been easier to get. With the invention of the internet and like YouTube, I forget built my business by like YouTube and everything, you know, when I was like brand new starting out, like the knowledge that is out there available for free on the internet, like you can learn anything. My husband and I always joke, he's a surgeon, and he watches surgery videos on YouTube and like learns surgical techniques. Like you're learning how to do surgery on YouTube, the amount of knowledge that is present in the world is proliferating
Amber Smith 1:00:37
Look up how to build a rocket.
Amber B 1:00:38
Or build a bomb. It's like, the knowledge is just like out there. And so especially since your audience is business owners, if we just try to stay in that area of selling knowledge, it's not going to go anywhere. If that's all you're offering your clients is just more knowledge, they can find that for free somewhere.
Amber Smith 1:01:00
With more knowledge, at a certain point overwhelmed our clients.
Amber B 1:01:04
Totally, 100%. And I always like dealing with that with my clients. It's like trying to walk this line between like giving them enough knowledge without overwhelming them. It's like a separate-minded walk. So I think as business owners, if that's the only thing that we're able to provide clients, then you're never gonna go anywhere long term. And I really see the world moving into, we have enough knowledge. It's not that we need more knowledge. It's that application piece. It's like, where are we getting ourselves stuck? Where are we getting in our own way? And you can't see that because it's a blind spot. Where do we have the spinach in our teeth that we cannot see? And that's why when you can provide education and coaching and actually like we're not talking about like Oreo coaching, we're talking about, like, Flambé coaching, then you as a business owner, are going to be able to grow with the market. Because the markets moving past, just knowledge products. At the beginning of the online business, you could just sell like, here's how to do X, Y and Z. And there's still a place for that. But the market is moving past that because knowledge is so easily acquired.
Amber Smith 1:02:06
Yeah. I think what you're speaking to is like people who love to hone their craft, I feel like you describe how, when your business took off, you took it seriously to become the best at what you did not just like good at marketing. And I feel like a lot of my listeners like I'm thinking of a few specific people, a few my friends and a few of my clients who have literally told me they're like, I don't want to be an accountability coach and like, you need to listen to this episode. And you need to go look at the Coaching Academy. Because I think it's good in theory, but like, how do you actually become a transformational coach like this? This is how this conversation and what obviously you teach in your Academy too.
Amber B 1:02:43
Yeah, yeah. And it's powerful. And it's powerful for you as well, I think. I hope that that comes across. We do things for our clients and most of the people who work with me have like a huge heart for service. But the transformation that occurs in yourself, as you step into this higher identity, as you step into this ability is remarkable as well. And the clients that I have come through Coaching Academy coming on the back end, they just are just shocked at how when you understand how to elicit and shift beliefs and see the world and be able to map other people's models of the world and see that it's everywhere. It's all day long in every interaction that you experience, and it's just such a joy to be able to open people's eyes to that.
Amber Smith 1:03:31
Yeah. I love that. You said that too, that like we get to benefit from the work. Client first.
Amber B 1:03:38
Yeah. Because I think as coaches like me, I don't know about you but as entrepreneurs, one of the reasons I love entrepreneurship is because it forces me to grow. Like, if I want to grow my business, I have to personally grow. And it becomes that playground that I get to do that in and learning to become a better coach will grow you and will grow your business. Because when you can get clients' results, it will, it can't help but grow your business.
Amber Smith 1:04:04
Yeah, it's like you said at the beginning, like the best type of marketing. Well, I feel like there are two things I thought about what James Wedmore says about like, You are the bottom line of your business. Right, that's always you. And then the next thing that I really resonate with is like, I'm my best always the first client like I'm doing the work on myself first. Because Rich Relevance says you can only take a client as deep as you're willing to go yourself. And like, like you just said like, it's like you'll leave the academy knowing more about yourself and other people so like, you're not going to be afraid to ask the hard questions and go deep with your clients because you did it first.
Amber B 1:04:40
Yeah, one of the things that you know, because we've now run Coaching Academy multiple times and we're always eliciting feedback from people, and one of the biggest things that people have loved and even want more of and so we're including it more in this round is coaching with me. Like they want to be coached as a coach. Not on fitness stuff but on like I started there as a coach. And so we heard that feedback. And we're like making that a deeper part of Coaching Academy of just that, understanding that coaches need coaches. And so what a better place to be able to, yes, learn techniques, learn fundamentals, learn tools, all of that good stuff. But at the end of the day, as you said, we have to be our own first client. And we need to be able to have the coaching so that we can go because we can't go deep on ourselves, we can't go deep with other clients. I talked about coaches a lot, if you don't feel worthy enough whole, you cannot coach clients with that. And a lot of your clients need to be coached through that. So let's work through that with you first.
Amber Smith 1:05:40
Right. Because if it's your blind spot, you can't get in your client.
Amber B 1:05:45
Say that to someone else. Exactly. Yeah.
Amber Smith 1:05:48
But a lot of coaches don't get that a lot of times I'll hear people who get stuck with their clients. And I'm like, Well, have you gotten coaching on that? Oh, that's where it is, where's that showing up for you? Because like, I feel like that's why you have to be a product of your product. Like, if you want to go deep with your clients, you better be going deep with yourself.
Amber B 1:06:05
I mean, life is a mirror, right? Like everything is just showing us more of where we can continue to grow, where we can continue to uplevel. And if that's coming up for you, especially if it comes up more than once. It's always, it's always an indication to me I'm like, Okay, well, there's something there. Yeah, it's, I need to go a little deeper on that for myself.
Amber Smith 1:06:25
Totally, totally. Awesome. I mean, we could talk about this forever, tell people where they can find out more.
Amber B 1:06:31
Yeah, so I have a podcast called Biceps After Babies Radio that's mostly focused on health and fitness and nutrition stuff.
Amber Smith 1:06:37
You've been dropping some business stuff, too.
Amber B 1:06:39
I do. Yeah. And as we, you know, if we're talking about like dreaming big dreams, we're building Coaching Academy again, I'm singularly focused on making that as good as it can, but in the long run, we're gonna have a business component to it as well. So that'll be in probably a couple of years, but we're definitely like integrate some of that stuff as well. And I also think following other business owners and other niches can be really valuable because you can see how the principles of marketing can be applied in. Sometimes we surround ourselves with like only people who are doing business in the same realm that we're doing and it becomes kind of an echo chamber. I like to follow business owners who are like totally different niches because it lets me see all this is how they're applying scarcity in their niche and taking core business principles and applying them. So yeah, come over to Biceps After Babies Radio and then my Instagram is bicepsafterbabies as well. Feel free to shoot me a DM. It's me and my DMs.
Amber Smith 1:07:31
So where can we find out more about the Coaching Academy?
Amber B 1:07:35
Do you like you want specifics?
Amber Smith 1:07:37
I want it because most of my listeners are coaches. They're gonna be like okay like this is it to me.
Amber B 1:07:43
It depends on when you're listening to this and where we are in the cycle, but just going into my Instagram is probably the best way to be able to find out. We have a masterclass coming up. But I don't know when this is airing. So I don't know if the master class is.
Amber Smith 1:07:55
I was going to tell you to tell me when to air this.
Amber B 1:07:58
Okay, well, master classes are in a week away. If it's past that time point, which is totally fine. Reach out to me and just kind of, we have an interest list going, Oh, that's I can drop that list. bicepsafterbabies.com/cert, C-E-R-T.
Amber Smith 1:08:21
And I'll link that in the show notes as well.
Amber B 1:08:23
Amber Smith 1:08:24
Yeah. You're amazing. Thank you so much.
Amber B 1:08:29
So fun. I always enjoy a conversation with you. People probably don't know, but you coached me, like, I don't know, like three years ago, it's a long time ago. But I reached out to Amber for some business coaching. And it was really powerful in the end, awesome. And we created a connection then and I've always just loved watching her from the sides continue to grow her business.
Amber Smith 1:08:50
That's a nice shout-out. Now that you have like, exponential, that's the word that comes to me like the exponential growth is crazy. But I think that you also like are, you do the work like you just write your mastermind. Like, I think that it's good to hear people who like you believe in coaching so much that you get coached, I get coached like the best performers, I know, get coaching and hone their craft. It's like you get coaching, you learn how to be a better coach, and you do the work so that your business grows as well. And you serve your clients with integrity.
Amber B 1:09:24
Yeah, yep. So good. Cool.
Amber Smith 1:09:26
Thanks, Amber. Well, everyone go check her out.
Amber B 1:09:33
Whew, that was a big one, sharing some of those big dreams that I have of really shaking up the coaching industry and specifically the fitness coaching industry. It's a little scary to share those dreams with the world but it gets me so excited, especially seeing the coaches that we've trained so far, and the success that they've been able to have both in their personal life as well as coaching their clients as well as building their businesses and it just excites me that we get to do it again really soon with a new group of women. So if you are interested in Coaching Academy and it's not too late after we've released this episode, doors will be open for a week after today. You can shoot me a DM on Instagram at biceps after babies. If it's a little bit further if it's you know, more than a week after this podcast episode airs, you can get on the interest list for the next round of Coaching Academy at bicepsafterbabies.com/cert, C-E-R-T.
Amber B 1:10:30
Lastly, if you are a coach, I cannot recommend Amber Smith's podcast The Conscious Coach more. She's fantastic, she is an excellent coach and especially if you're looking for someone to help you to grow your business. She is fantastic so be sure to check her out. She's also @itsambersmith on Instagram. That wraps up this episode of Biceps After Babies Radio. I'm Amber, now go out and be strong because remember my friend, you can do anything.
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