
Show Notes
In this episode, I’m joined by Dr. Nicole Rowe, MD—a board-certified Family Practice physician and fellow protein lover—to unpack everything you’ve ever wanted to know about protein. We’re cutting through the noise, debunking common myths, and digging into the latest research, including a major meta-analysis. Dr. Rowe shares how protein needs shift throughout different stages of life, how to increase your intake without it becoming a full-time job, and how to turn science into simple, sustainable action. Whether you’re new to tracking protein or already have it down, this conversation will leave you informed and empowered. Grab your protein coffee—let’s dive in!
Find show notes at bicepsafterbabies.com/371
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Highlights
- Transition from clinical medicine into the world of coaching 03:53
- Difference between protein and amino acids 07:48
- What is a meta-analysis? 09:35
- Upper limit in eating protein 14:42
- Guidelines to follow in terms of types of protein 20:01
- How does protein metabolism change as we get older 21:59
- Importance of protein and getting protein 23:35
- Practical ways to increase protein intake 26:51
- Importance of sleep 35:44
Links:
Introduction
You're listening to Biceps After Babies Radio Episode 371.
Hello and welcome to Biceps After Babies Radio. A podcast for ladies who know that fitness is about so much more than pounds lost or PR's. It's about feeling confident in your skin and empowered in your life. I'm your host Amber Brueseke, a registered nurse, personal trainer, wife and mom of four. Each week my guests and I will excite and motivate you to take action in your own personal fitness as we talk about nutrition, exercise, mindset, personal development and executing life with conscious intention. If your goal is to look, feel and be strong and experience transformation from the inside out, you my friend are in the right place. Thank you for tuning in. Now, let's jump into today's episode.
Hey, hey, hey, welcome back to another episode of Biceps After Babies Radio. I'm your host, Amber Brueseke, and I have a real treat for you today because we are talking about one of my favorite topics and one of the things you hear all the time on social media. We're dispelling all of the myths around protein. I'm sure you've heard before you need to be eating more protein, but you probably have a lot of questions. How much? Why? What's the purpose? Am I going to destroy my kidneys if I increase my protein? Is there an upper limit? Well, lucky for you, my guest, Dr. Nicole Rowe, and I are tackling all of that today. Dr. Rowe is a board-certified family practice physician, and she's also a fellow protein enthusiast, and so we dive deep into one of my very favorite things, research. And she's talking about a huge meta-analysis that came out recently about protein, and we dive deep, deep into all of the research. What does the research have to say about protein? I love that we're not just talking theory, we're talking the most current up-to-date science and what the literature is saying. And then Dr. Rowe does such a great job of taking the literature and the science and then making it very applicable. So we talk about how do you actually eat more protein without feeling like it is your full-time job. We talk about different stages of life. We talk about the different phases and how protein needs differ throughout the different phases. So whatever stage of life you're in, whatever phase of macro counting you're in, whether you're just at the beginning of trying to eat more protein or you already feel like that's super easy, this is going to be a really in-depth conversation so that you feel really knowledgeable about making decisions about your protein intake, about what types of protein you're eating, and you can really keep your body as healthy and strong as possible. So grab your protein coffee. That's one of the things that we're going to talk about on the episode. And let's jump into the conversation with Dr. Nicole Rowe.
Amber B 02:46
I'm so excited to welcome to the podcast Dr. Nicole Rowe. Welcome to Biceps After Babies Radio.
Dr. Nicole Rowe 02:52
Thank you, Amber. I'm excited to be here.
Amber B 02:55
Okay, so we're going to get into the nitty-gritty today, but let's start a little high level and just introduce you and who you are.
Dr. Nicole Rowe 03:03
Absolutely. So my name is Nicole Rowe. I am a board-certified family practice physician, and I have a special interest in women's health, especially in the perimenopause and menopause life transitions. And I specifically love to coach and help women thrive through that transition through lifestyle changes. And a lot of that lifestyle involves changes to nutrition and exercise programming. And I think I'm excited to share some more about that today.
Amber B 03:30
Awesome. Okay, so I don't know if you know this, but my husband's a physician. So I'm super curious about your transition from clinical medicine into the world of coaching, like what caused that transition? You know, what drew you to, you know, kind of exiting clinical medicine as it's traditionally practiced into something, you know, a little bit more on your own. I'm just so curious to hear that transition.
Dr. Nicole Rowe 03:53
It is a long-winded story, but I'll give you the cliff notes. So I have always had an interest in strength training, nutrition, exercise, all that stuff. And as an idealistic young person, I thought, you know what? I'm going to go change the world. I'm going to share all that information.
Amber B 04:10
I'm going to change the medical institution.
Dr. Nicole Rowe 04:12
I'm going to change it. And I'm just going to teach them how to eat right and exercise, and everybody will be healthy in the end. And then I realized, you know, not too far into my medical career that actually there are a lot of people out there that don't want to make a change to their lifestyle. And they would actually rather you just give them a pill instead of making a lifestyle change. And here, young idealistic me thought, of course, they'll want to change their lifestyle. Like, of course they would. Why would you want to take a pill? And that is actually not the case. So I grew a bit frustrated with that. But I'm not one to just sit around and kind of be frustrated and bang my head against a wall. And I thought, well, why don't I start a business where I can work exclusively with the people that do want to make lifestyle changes? And they're the ones that I love to speak to, the people that want to do things for their health and that are very curious and interested and open to doing these things, but they don't exactly know what to do and they don't know the practicalities of it. And there are actually a lot of them, and many of them are women. And I love working with them. And honestly, it has been so gratifying because I have the ability to look at, you know, what's going on in the big picture and say, yeah, okay, maybe you do need some medications. Like, maybe you have a thyroid condition. Like, yeah, you probably need thyroid hormone replacement for that. Maybe you're having, you know, very severe symptoms from menopause. And yes, doing hormone replacement therapy for that is going to change your life. And also, there are other things that we can do to augment the medications that you need with lifestyle. So being able to kind of combine those has been really wonderful. I actually am going to go back part-time clinically so that I can still keep my hand in the pot with medicine and try to really form a practice that's tailored to women as much as I can. You know, I'm going to have to see everyone, but I'm hoping to draw in women that are looking to do some combination of lifestyle stuff, plus the hormone therapy, plus, you know, treatment for medical conditions that may arise, but they're not only looking for pills to solve their problems.
Amber B 06:21
Yeah. I mean, what I love is, and you kind of said it so eloquently, that there is purpose to all the different, you know, ways that we can help people. And yes, there is a time and a place for medication and surgery and, you know, the things that the medical institution can provide. And there's not as much time or as much willingness, as to your point, to have some of those lifestyle changes. And so coaching or, you know, a business on the side can provide that as well. And they can work in tandem. Like, it's not that one is better than the other. We don't need one after the other. It's that they're both really important and they can work together to be able to really support, you know, patients or clients in the way that they want to be able to get the results.
Dr. Nicole Rowe 07:02
Exactly. And I think also there, you know, the time limitations in current practice are something. So like having the coaching practice, I can spend an hour with someone on their nutrition. As a family medicine doctor, as much as I would love to spend an hour talking, taking a deep dive on somebody's nutrition, like that's not the time or place when you are scheduled for these short visits. So being able to do both, I think is really helpful and leads to less frustration for patients and clients.
Amber B 07:27
Yeah, absolutely. So we're going to do a deep dive into protein, which is such a hot topic today in women's health, in health in general. You know, everyone's like eat more protein, eat more protein, eat more protein. So coming from a medical perspective, what makes protein so crucial for fat loss, for building and maintaining muscle and just our overall well-being?
Dr. Nicole Rowe 07:48
Yeah, great question. So protein is one of, it is my favorite macronutrient. It is so unique as compared to, yes, it's the best. I mean, I love that. I love carbohydrates, but protein is a whole different animal. So if you think of protein for the average person that doesn't want to get into the biochemistry so much, you can think of protein as like a Lego structure. So I made, you know, a Lego tower with my son. That's our protein. And when we eat that protein, it gets digested and broken down into amino acids. And you can think of the amino acids kind of like the little individual Legos. So now you've broken down this protein and you've got all these amino acids, and those amino acids are magic. They can be used for anything. That is the way that our body builds and repairs things. So these amino acids are used to build new muscle. They're used to build new bone. They're used to make essential hormones in your body. So, for example, testosterone, growth hormone, those things require amino acids in your body to build them. So the more amino acids that you have, which come from eating protein, the more your body is able to perform all these very essential and helpful processes that are going to lead to your body being and functioning at its best.
Amber B 09:08
So good. And such a good explanation of the difference between protein and amino acids. I think sometimes people get a little lost in all of that. So you recently dove into a meta-analysis on protein research. Let's start with, can you describe what a meta-analysis is for people who don't know and aren't familiar with research? And then I want to dive into that meta-analysis of the most current understanding that we have about protein. So let's start with, what is a meta-analysis?
Dr. Nicole Rowe 09:35
Great. So a meta-analysis is a review, a statistical review of all the available literature that we have. So if you think of one scientific study, let's say there were 100 people studied and they found a certain outcome. But then somebody else did another scientific study and they found a slightly different outcome. So a meta-analysis takes everything that we know, everything that's been reported in the literature, and combines the evidence to try to get an overall picture of what science is telling us is true, as far as we understand it at the present moment.
Amber B 10:08
So good. And why is a meta-analysis a little bit of like the gold standard in terms of research?
Dr. Nicole Rowe 10:16
So a meta-analysis is much less likely to be influenced by bias. It's also more likely to take into account different effect sizes and power of different studies. So you might be misled if you look at one individual study where it turns out they were only studying 20 people and they found a very significant effect. But then if you look at a different study of 100 people and they found the same effect, that gives you a little bit more confidence that the thing that they found was actually true. But then when you combine all the available studies into a meta-analysis, you're able to make conclusions based on a much larger pool of participants, which gives you more confidence that the findings are actually true and based on real phenomenon versus just something that happened by chance.
Amber B 11:03
Fantastic. Okay, so with this meta-analysis, let's start high level, then we can get a little bit more specific. But what were some of the big takeaways from it?
Dr. Nicole Rowe 11:11
Yeah, so high level, one of the most interesting things from this study was that the more protein you consume in general, the better your potential for muscle gains. Now, that doesn't mean that it's a direct relationship. So, you know, the majority of your benefits from protein came at a significant, at a distinct level that we'll talk about. And as you went beyond that level, you weren't getting the same amount of benefit, but you were still getting some benefit. So basically…
Amber B 11:41
Like a taper.
Dr. Nicole Rowe 11:42
Exactly, exactly. So if you look at it, it starts off with a steep curve, and then it kind of tapers off, but you're still getting some incremental benefits, even at higher levels of protein. So this study was trying to quantify exactly what levels would maximize your muscle building potential, while also keeping in mind that most people are not going to be just eating infinite amounts of protein due to the possible health consequences and also just the practicalities of eating that much protein.
Amber B 12:08
Right. Yeah, it's so interesting. So where did the research start to see that taper? Was it a static point, or was it more in relationship to the size of the body? You know, like we usually talk about protein in like a one gram per pound. So was it looking at it in relationship to the person's body size, or was it looking at it like 120 grams of just protein, and then that was how the relationship was graphed?
Dr. Nicole Rowe 12:35
It was always in relationship to the body size. So they did it in grams per kilogram of body weight, and that's how they quantified everything. And what they showed was that there were definite increases in muscle gains up to about 2.3 grams of protein daily per kilogram of body weight. Which is..
Amber B 12:52
So around that one gram per pound.
Dr. Nicole Rowe 12:53
Exactly, exactly. And there were possibly increases beyond that, but the data just kind of tapered off after that, because there weren't that many studies that were going much above that.
But it did look like there were potentially still increases, even though a little bit smaller increases past that point. But definitely up to 2.3 grams per kilogram.
Amber B 13:16
Was activity level and or weight lifting taken into account when they're talking about the relationship between protein and muscle?
Dr. Nicole Rowe 13:22
No, they didn't. Most of these studies were on individuals that did engage in some resistance training, just because they were, you know, from the perspective of trying to build as much muscle as possible. But some of the participants were untrained, some of them were trained, some of them were just purely based on weight loss studies, some of them, you know, everything was kind of varied. But there was no, there was no, what's the word, standardization of the exercise protocol, which is a really important point because, as you know, depending on what type of exercise you're engaged in, you could get a lot more gains of muscle versus fewer gains of muscle. So this is just kind of like an overall picture without kind of maximizing the strength training programming.
Amber B 14:04
Yeah, well, and what's really cool about that is that eating more protein is helpful, whether or not you're strength training and that you can have at least some muscle gains, even independent of weight training, if you're consuming enough protein, which is fascinating.
Dr. Nicole Rowe 14:19
Yeah, I find that fascinating also. And it's something that, I mean, it's why not increase your protein? I mean, yes, in a perfect world, I want everyone to be strength training consistently.
Amber B 14:30
Me too.
Dr. Nicole Rowe 14:31
If you're not going to be strength training consistently, at least eat protein. I mean, that's going to help you more than eating low protein and also not resistance training. That's just a setup for losing your muscle.
Amber B 14:42
Yeah. Was there anything in this meta-analysis that, I mean, I know you said that it was kind of the upper limit, was right around that one pound per gram, per pound of body weight. Was there anything in there talking about or taking into account an upper limit? I mean, a lot of women get really nervous saying, oh, I could eat too much protein, or it might affect my kidneys, and it's going to be hard on my kidneys. Was there anything in this meta-analysis that was talking about some sort of upper limit or some sort of, you know, it's not healthy to go beyond or not safe to go beyond this amount? Or did it not touch that?
Dr. Nicole Rowe 15:17
This one didn't, but I have done a lot of studying on that separately. And I can share a little bit more about that because that is a valid concern. You know, most of the women I work with are like me, they're type A, they're go-getters, they want to maximize their benefits on everything. And so more is not always better. And sometimes I have to rein people in a little bit, like, okay, you got to eat something besides protein. We need to eat some carbohydrates. We need to eat some fats also. So we can dive into that if you want to go…
Amber B 15:46
Yeah. Let's go down that rabbit hole.
Dr. Nicole Rowe 15:46
Great, perfect. So the first thing I'll say is that for people with healthy functioning kidneys, you can eat a lot more protein than you've probably been told. There are a lot of scare tactics out there. You can find them on YouTube. You can find them, you know, on all sorts of various websites telling you about the dangers of eating too much protein. That is largely unfounded. And there have been numerous meta-analyses testing people between 6 and 24 months, so pretty long-term follow-up, and finding that eating a high-protein diet for that amount of time did not lead to any problems with your kidneys in people with normally functioning kidneys. Now, if your kidneys are not normally functioning, that is not the case, and you should absolutely work with your nephrologist to get the right amount for you, because people that don't have kidneys that are able to filter that amount of load cannot eat that much protein, and they have to follow guidelines based on their kidney doctor's recommendations so that they can stay healthy.
But for the average person, most of us can filter a lot of protein waste and do just fine, even up to two-year follow-up. So the thing that I have people keep in mind with high-protein intake is that it does lead to an increase in urinary calcium excretion, so you're essentially peeing out more calcium when you're eating a high-protein diet. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that you're losing calcium from your bones, but in order to protect your bones, which is of utmost concern, especially for women in menopause, you want to make sure that you're getting enough calcium and vitamin D in your diet to replace any urinary calcium losses. So a high-protein diet, in my opinion, should always be paired with supplemental calcium and vitamin D intake. You want to make sure to be testing your levels of calcium and vitamin D yearly and making sure that they're in range. And you want to be very, I don't want to say religious, you have to be very cognizant of getting enough in your diet so that you're counteracting any urinary calcium losses.
And then the other thing is also to stay very well hydrated because your kidneys need water to be able to filter out all that waste that's accumulating from the protein. So if you're not giving your body enough water, your kidneys are not going to be able to function optimally and they're not going to be able to clear all the waste safely. So stay hydrated and eat your calcium and vitamin D. That being said, the last part of the protein equation is going to be urea. So when protein is broken down and digested, it leads to metabolic waste, which protein has nitrogen in it, all protein has some form of nitrogen, and the nitrogen needs to be excreted in the form of urea. You can only filter so much urea per day and everybody's level varies a little bit. So on average, somewhere between 3 and 3.5 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight per day should be the absolute upper limit of what you are eating per day. If you're not an elite level power lifter or some form of athlete that's just using more protein than the average person. So that amount is going to be safe, that your body can excrete the urea that it needs to safely, as long as you're keeping those other guidelines in mind.
Amber B 19:00
That's so good. Really, really helpful. And helpful to, I just feel like the more you know, the more science you know, the less we can like fall into the fear tactics of like, oh my gosh, you got to, you can't eat too much or your kidneys are going to get shot or you're going to have issues long term. So it's helpful to have the research and helpful to have the scientific understanding and the things to be able to watch out for, right? It's such a good recommendation to make sure you're drinking enough water, right? That's going to help your kidneys to be able to process and to be able to filter out your urine.
Let's go a little deeper into, because we kind of use this umbrella term of protein, but there are lots of different types of protein. And did the study look at different plant-based versus animal-based protein, complete proteins versus incomplete proteins, right? All the different types. And what does the research actually say in terms of absorption, muscle building, overall health? Are there any guidelines that we should be following in terms of types of protein?
Dr. Nicole Rowe 20:01
So this particular study did not delineate between animal-based and plant-based forms of protein, but at the risk of alienating all the vegans and plant-based eaters, I think we can safely say that animal-based forms of protein are generally considered to be more absorbable and of higher quality amino acid profiles. So that is not to say anything about ethics. That's not to say anything about the additional benefits of plant-based eating, such as fiber and phytonutrients. But if you're purely looking at the amino acids, the animal-based forms, which doesn't just mean meat, it also includes eggs, it also includes dairy. Dairy are very well absorbed and have a great amino acid profile. Animal-based forms are going to be better than plant-based, all other things being equal. But one thing I want, I have a lot of clients that are plant-based for different reasons. And one thing to keep in mind is that you can essentially overcome the limitations of a plant-based diet by eating enough protein. So that's another plug for just really boosting your total protein amount, because it turns out that if you eat enough protein in a plant-based diet, you can essentially get the same effects at muscle building and hormone sparing and all the other benefits of high protein when you're eating enough of it. So you can look at images of vegan bodybuilders and they look great and they have tons of muscle, but they're also eating a ton of protein. If you are a plant-based eater and you're only getting 50 or 60 grams of protein, you're not going to have those results because you're eating an inferior protein and you're also not eating enough of it.
Amber B 21:33
Sure. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So let's talk about protein intake as we age. Because I know that that's something, especially as we're… I feel like menopause is such a hot topic these days and we're finally getting some of the research that we as women need for this thing that we've been going through for decades or eons, basically. But how does protein metabolism change as we get older and how do our protein needs change as we get older?
Dr. Nicole Rowe 21:59
Great question. So unfortunately, as we get older, we experience something called anabolic resistance, which basically just describes the aging process, wherein the more protein that we get, the less of it can be used. So let me rephrase that. So we need more protein to get the same amount of effect as we get older because our body is not really willing to build muscle. It's hormonally not situated in a place where it wants to build a lot of muscle. And so in order to overcome that and actually build muscle in midlife and older life, we have to eat more protein overall. So as important as protein is throughout the lifespan, I would say starting in the early to mid-30s is when we should really be prioritizing increasing our intake. And we don't exactly know how much to increase in later life, but a good target would probably be that 1.6 grams per kilogram range. For older adults, that seems to provide a lot of the benefits of sparing muscle loss and overcoming any of the anabolic resistance that might occur and really optimizing your dietary intake. Now, if you want to do more than that, that's totally fine. But I would say for most older adults, that range would be the minimum I would recommend, especially if you're strength training.
Amber B 23:19
Yeah. What about different phases that people are going through? You know, the difference between going through a fat loss phase, where you're focusing on muscle gains, where you're just kind of maintaining and living your life. Are there differences in protein amounts that we should be thinking about during those different phases?
Dr. Nicole Rowe 23:35
Yeah, if you're just living and maintaining your life, especially if you're not in a calorie deficit and you're not really interested in building muscle at this point, you can probably go lower than the people that are in an active fat loss phase or an active building phase. So usually between 1.0 and 1.2 grams per kilogram of body weight daily is plenty for that. So if you are, you know, just hoping to maintain the status quo and not really looking to build any muscle and you are, you know, in your early 30s, I think that would be totally fine. Now, that being said, because of anabolic resistance, just to maintain the status quo as you get older is going to take a little bit more. So I would tend to think about bumping it up closer to the 1.2 to 1.5 range for those people. And then the most important is, of course, when you're in a calorie deficit or when you're in an active building phase, those two things should be the highest level of protein intake. So we'll talk about fat loss first, because that sounds a little bit counterintuitive. You would think, oh, I'm decreasing my calories. I should decrease my protein. Actually, you want to keep the relative percentage of your protein high as you are decreasing calories, which is going to spare your body from getting rid of its muscle. Muscle is very metabolically expensive. So your body, if it thinks that it's in a state of starvation, which you're essentially telling your body you're giving it less calories than it needs to maintain, your body is very smart and is going to prioritize getting rid of the most expensive muscle tissue first. So you're going to lose muscle preferentially if you're not actively counteracting it with a lot of protein. So the people that should be eating the absolute most amount of protein are those who are in a fat loss phase. And I would ideally pair that also with resistance training, which is similarly going to send your body the signal not to get rid of its muscle when it's losing fat and to preferentially get rid of fat instead.
So that I would stay towards the higher end of the range. Similarly, in a building phase, you want to be, I'd say, in a moderate to high range of protein. The nice thing about if you're in a building phase, if you're in a bulk, you're actually, that means that you're increasing your calories above your maintenance needs, as you know, and you can get away with slightly less protein when you have an overall calorie surplus. So you can probably stick around that 1.2 to 1.5 grams per kilogram range and be fine. Personally, I like to bulk with the higher end of the range. So 1.5 to, you know, I probably do 1.5 to 1.8, just because I find that I get better results when I bulk with a higher protein and get more of my calories from protein. It gives you more muscle with less fat accumulation as you're building muscle.
Amber B 26:19
Which is exactly what most people want.
Dr. Nicole Rowe 26:21
Which is what most people want, exactly.
Amber B 26:23
Yeah. Okay, so I think you've made a fantastic case for the importance of protein and getting protein. It is one thing to say, eat more protein, and it is another thing to actually do it. And so, for women who are struggling and maybe they're like, okay, I'm recommitted to increasing my protein intake, but in the past they found it really challenging. What are some practical ways that we can be thinking about in order to increase our protein intake without feeling like it's our, you know, full-time job to just eat protein?
Dr. Nicole Rowe 26:51
It might still feel like your full-time job, but there are definitely some tricks to try to increase your protein. And I have this conversation all the time because it is really challenging and I just want everyone to know that I know that it's challenging and I know that it feels like a big change. And the first thing I tell all my clients is, you don't need to do this overnight. If you're going from 50 grams of protein, you don't need to go from 50 grams of protein to 140 grams of protein overnight. And in fact, you'll get more benefits from going from 50 to, let's say, 90, than you will from 90 to 130. So you're getting a lot of benefits just by increasing it from whatever you're at right now. So just take a deep breath and you don't need to do it all at once. A place that's often helpful to start is breakfast. And that's for two reasons.
The first is that most women I know don't automatically start out eating a very high-protein big breakfast unless they've conscientiously been doing that. So it's an easy place to bump up your protein intake for the day. And it doesn't feel like you are having to add a lot of extra food because you're just essentially replacing what was previously a non-existent meal or a very high-carb meal with something that is high in protein. If you don't like eating breakfast, I often recommend people do protein coffee, which is something that I'm sure you've heard about. But basically, you take your morning cup of coffee and you add some form of protein powder to it mixed in some unsweetened milk, or you can just do it plain. And it essentially tastes like a mocha. You're just adding chocolate protein powder to your coffee. You're not adding any extra food. And you've just got 25 grams of protein in your morning coffee. So that's an easy way to do it.
Amber B 28:32
Yeah, that's great.
Dr. Nicole Rowe 28:33
Yeah, it's, you know, and I, at first, I was not on this bandwagon because I was like, that's going to ruin my coffee. It's going to taste disgusting. But I actually switched to this Vital Protein Collagen protein. And it mixes in really well with the coffee. And it honestly tastes like a mocha. So I don't mind it at all. And then I usually still have something else to add some protein on top of it. But at least I've taken care of 20 grams of protein just with that.
Another thing I recommend is also just increasing your portion sizes. You don't necessarily have to create a bunch of elaborate meals and, you know, come up with a bunch of new recipes from scratch. But if you're having grilled chicken with your lunch, maybe weigh it on a food scale. You can get one for 10 bucks from Amazon. And instead of having three ounces of chicken, just have four or five ounces of chicken. So you're just essentially increasing the size of your portion sizes for protein. And you're getting a lot more bang for your buck there. And then adding a snack can often be helpful. So if people are used to eating three meals a day, sometimes adding that fourth meal as a snack can help to boost protein. So dividing, let's say you're getting 120 grams of protein, getting 30 grams at breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and then doing a 30 gram protein shake as a snack can be helpful just to add you that little extra boost.
The reason why you don't want to only do protein powders is because if you are in a weight loss phase, you want to make sure that you're remaining as full as possible. And protein powders don't fill you up as much as regular foods do, like chicken, fish, steak. Those things are very filling. But if you are not in a weight loss phase and your goal is just to get more protein, those protein powders can be very helpful just to hit your targets. And even if you are in a weight loss phase, sometimes it's hard to get your protein intake in. So doing a combination of those two can be really helpful.
Amber B 30:26
So good. Those were awesome. Really practical. I mean, if you're listening to this, you should be able to take at least one of those and go and execute on it. And I appreciate how you couched it of like, we don't need to jump from 50 grams of protein to 150 grams of protein. I mean, if you remember when you were talking about the graph, you said it has a very steep curve at the beginning and then it tapers off. But if you're in that steep curve, even 10 more grams of protein is going to be very significant for your success and your results. And that stair-stepping, that baby-stepping is definitely the way to go when it comes to protein intake.
Dr. Nicole Rowe 31:01
100%. And it's also easier on your digestion because when you add protein, your digestion is working harder. So if you suddenly go from 50 grams to 150 grams, your digestive system is going to be on overload. You may get some constipation, not to be too graphic, but your toots may not smell so delicious.
Amber B 31:20
Protein spark is a real thing.
Dr. Nicole Rowe 31:22
It's a real thing. It's a real thing. It's really gross. But you can sort of counteract some of that by going a little bit more gradually and by focusing on the types of proteins that your body digests the best. Because I didn't say this earlier, but some people are sensitive to certain forms of protein. So if you're finding yourself feeling just really bloated or really full or really gross after certain types of protein, just experiment and try different ones. Because some people don't do well with eggs. Some people don't do well with dairy. So you may just have to play around with different forms of it and find something that feels good to you because the best protein is going to be the one that your body can digest and use.
Amber B 32:00
So good. Now I know that you talked about this before of how important lifestyle is and lifestyle changes and how sometimes as a physician when you have 10 to 15 minutes with a patient, it's really hard to go into some of those lifestyle shifts and changes. But it plays a huge role in our success. So what are some of the things that you… I'm thinking in terms of, okay, you have 15 minutes with somebody as a physician versus an hour with someone as a client. What are some of the things you're including in that hour conversation that you wish that you could have in the 15 minutes but there's just not time for?
Dr. Nicole Rowe 32:37
Yeah. So the first one, of course, I think we'll both agree, is the strength training. The importance of strength training and just educating them on some of the most high-yield exercises for strength training. I think when people think of strength training, a lot of times we have this view of bodybuilders spending hours in the gym, doing some bicep curls, getting the pump. That's fine, but that's not what I mean when I'm talking to the everyday person on the importance of strength training. So I would talk with them about compound exercises which are going to be the biggest bang for your buck high-yield exercises that I think everyone should try to incorporate if they are short on time but want to get some good results with strength training. Teaching them how to do lunges, how to do some form of deadlift or hinge variation, doing overhead presses, chest presses, those types of things are going to really give you great results with strength training. I would also talk with them about the importance of walking and low-level activity. Even if you're not doing any formal cardio, it is very important that you be moving throughout the day. Most of us sit at desks all day and then we get in the car and we drive home and we're driving to work and then we get home and we sit on our butt and we watch TV after we sit at the dinner table and eat our meal. Our bodies are designed to move and that does not mean just formal exercise on a treadmill. That means going for a 10-minute walk after your meals, hopping up from your desk and doing a set of jumping jacks. The more you can do the better and little bits really do add up. It might seem like it's not going to make a difference, but it really does. There's been some really great studies on the value of these little mini bursts of exercise and they are so valuable, not just for your body composition, but also for your overall health. They can decrease cancer risk, they can decrease your risk of dementia, they can promote bone health. The more that you can incorporate little exercise breaks into your day, the better. The nice thing about that, for the women I work with, they're often so busy and they've got back-to-back meetings. The time efficient time savers are what is going to be sustainable for them right now because they are not retirees. They're trying to balance full-time jobs and taking care of kids at home. The more that we can incorporate the movement into their normal life, the better chance they have at getting these benefits.
Amber B 34:57
Yeah. I think it's very similar where we talked about even 10 more grams of protein, you're on that steep incline, that makes a big difference. It's the same thing with the movement. It seems so silly that doing 10 air squats in between calls, what is that going to do? You're saying it does a lot.
Dr. Nicole Rowe 35:16
It does. It does.
Amber B 35:17
Any little bit that you're adding on makes a difference. Sometimes we just feel like it has to be so grand. It has to be an hour at the gym or it for some reason doesn't do anything for our body. The research really bears out otherwise. From a health perspective, especially that movement, even little bursts of movement can be so beneficial. Getting out of that all-or-nothing thinking when it comes to both our protein and our exercise.
Dr. Nicole Rowe 35:44
Absolutely. Included in that conversation, if I had time after all that, I would really focus on sleep because I think that's another underrated one for health. I wish that people included sleep as part of a formal weight loss strategy in everything. You go to a weight loss clinic and they teach you about sleep because it's that important for overall health and that important for body composition. So many of us are chronically sleep deprived. We're going to bed too late. We're waking up not having a restful night and waking up already starting behind in our day. A lot of that can be hormonal for women and menopause too. So there are estrogen and progesterone related issues that are going to lead to disrupted sleep if you're having hot flashes. So really being an advocate for yourself if you're having poor sleep and figuring out ways to manage it with lifestyle, with supplements or with hormones or medications if you need it is really essential. I would probably want to deep dive into that with almost every client and make sure that they were really getting optimal sleep.
Then from the medical perspective, I have to just say too that the answer is not just to take Ambien or to take Lunesta because those types of things are not actually giving you the quality sleep that you need. You might feel like you're getting more hours of sleep but it's not giving you the REM sleep and the deep sleep that you actually need. You're essentially just sedating yourself in some ways. Those medications are meant to be short term. They're not meant to be a long term solution. They're great for jet lag or things like that but they're not a solution to getting quality sleep. I would try to work with people as much as possible on more safe and effective ways of getting long term good sleep.
Amber B 37:29
I am so glad that you brought up sleep. I really do think it is one of those underestimated huge levers that we just kind of ignore when it comes to health and weight loss and it can make such a big difference at the risk of opening up an entire other can of worms. If somebody's wondering if they get good sleep. I think sometimes it's like well do I get good sleep? I think some people know that they don't and they know that they need to improve their sleep or they're not sleeping enough but for somebody who is maybe sitting here being like how do I know if I'm getting good sleep? What would you have a conversation with them about that might alert us to hey this is an area that probably could use a little bit of focus and a little bit of intention.
Dr. Nicole Rowe 38:15
Yeah good question. First of all if they're snoring I would absolutely get a sleep study. If they're snoring or having other sleep interruptions I would ask your doctor or provider for a sleep study. They are covered by insurance. You can do home sleep studies. You don't have to go to the hospital anymore. They're very effective and that can tell you exactly how many times you're waking up per night. It can give you an idea of your oxygen levels and if you have sleep apnea you are by definition not getting good sleep until it's treated. So I would always start there if you have any question and you can actually qualify for sleep studies just by having excessive daytime fatigue. So if you are waking up and you're already kind of starting at a loss and you think that you're spending enough time in bed I would ask about getting a sleep study. Now if you're waking up tired and you've only spent six hours in bed that's not the answer. The answer is you need to be in bed longer.
Amber B 39:09
Try sleeping longer.
Dr. Nicole Rowe 39:11
Go to bed earlier. And that you know if ideally people should be in bed for eight hours most adults should be in bed for eight hours. A lot of us like to think we're this super human exception to the rule and we only need four to five hours but chances are you are not the exception to the rule. There are very few people that are. So if you're finding yourself tired throughout the day or just needing extra cups of coffee in the afternoon to wake you up or you're just feeling like you're dragging all day if you're spending less than seven to eight hours in bed I would start there and just see if you can push back your bedtime a little bit sooner. And then I guess the other thing you could consider if you wanted to try some of these devices. They're getting better. I hear the Aura Ring the newest generation of Aura Ring is supposed to be pretty good but they are very expensive so there are other options. I'm trying to remember I use like a sleep tracker app that can sometimes I think it's similar you know it can monitor your breathing and kind of guesstimate whether you're in REM sleep. I have a Garmin watch which I don't think is very accurate but that can tell me my sleep quality. So you can use all these tracking devices too but none of them are going to be as good as the gold standard which is a sleep study.
Amber B 40:22
Yeah. So it kind of seems like how are you feeling.
Dr. Nicole Rowe 40:25
How are you feeling?
Amber B 40:26
Right. As good as just like a sleep tracker. It's like yeah. Like how are you feeling when you wake up. I use I use my Apple watch and a sleep tracker app as well. But sometimes there's a mismatch between my sleep tracker says it was great and I don't feel great. And I think sometimes it's like easy to default to like well the sleep tracker says it was fine. It's like how did you feel.
Dr. Nicole Rowe 40:45
Yeah. That's totally true. There's even a word for it. It's like a it's like a sleep disorder called by fear of your sleep tracker. I get that you have bad sleep and I totally get it too because there's times that I wake up refreshed and my Garmin says oh you had really disrupted sleep. You need some recovery. I just feel like so defeated. But I thought I did really good.
Amber B 41:07
So good. Which is right.
Dr. Nicole Rowe 41:08
I’m giving everyone permission to take those with a grain of salt because it matters more how you feel..
Amber B 41:13
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's just like anything it's it's data and it can be helpful but like anytime you hyper fixate on one piece of data it loses it's, it loses its measure. What does that good arts law like once the target becomes the measure then it's easier to measure.
Dr. Nicole Rowe 41:29
Absolutely. Absolutely. It's just like saying if you get fixated on it to the exclusion of everything else it's not going to it's not serving you anymore. You're..
Amber B 41:36
You're serving your sleep tracker. Yeah. It doesn't really make a lot of sense. Well this has been fascinating and fantastic. If people are wanting to come and work with you do a little pitch about who you serve and who you help and how they can reach out to you.
Dr. Nicole Rowe 41:50
Sure. So I am online at NicoleRowe.org and I'm also on Instagram and threads at Nicole, no Dr. Nicole Rowe. And I work primarily with women in the perimenopause and menopause transition. So late 30s and up and I would love to work with you if you are wanting to make some sustainable science-backed lifestyle changes and change your body composition get stronger lose some fat and stay healthy.
Amber B 42:17
Awesome. And we will link everything up in the show notes. We'll also link the meta analysis that you and I had a conversation about. So if people are wanting to go actually read the research they can they can do that as well. Thanks so much for coming on and thanks for sharing with my audience. This was fantastic.
Dr. Nicole Rowe 42:31
Yeah. Thanks for having me Amber. It was great to meet you.
Amber B 42:34
Okay. So if you weren't already convinced that protein is basically magic I hope that you're there now after that conversation. Big thanks to Dr. Nicole Rowe for breaking it down. I think she did such a great job of not only going over the science and the research but then taking that and making it really tangible. Like how do I actually do this in my real life. And that application is is really essential. We can read all we want about the how to's and the why's and the how's and it's important. But if we can't actually apply it and make it happen in our real life then it's not going to actually change.
Now if you're sitting here listening oh shoot I'm definitely under eating protein. Listen you're not alone. And like Dr. Rowe said you don't have to overhaul everything overnight. Baby steps, just little baby steps my friend even adding 10 more grams of protein to your diet is a huge big win. All right. That's it for today. Thanks for joining me. That wraps up this episode of Biceps After Babies Radio. I'm Amber. Now go out and be strong because remember my friend you can do anything.
Outro
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