Today my guest is someone that's a little bit different because most people in the fitness industry wouldn't put the two of us together, “opposing sides”. But it's interesting that both of us share the same goal and that’s where we want you to get to. I believe that's the goal for most women in the fitness industry, to empower women, we want women to be able to live their best life. And so we have already had a really good conversation and I'm really excited for you to listen to it.
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You're listening to Biceps after Babies radio episode number 108.
Hello and welcome to Biceps after Babies radio. A podcast for ladies who know that fitness is about so much more than pounds lost or PRs. It's about feeling confident in your skin and empowered in your life. I'm your host, Amber Brueseke, a registered nurse, personal trainer, wife, and mom of four. Each week, my guests and I will excite and motivate you to take action in your own personal fitness as we talk about nutrition, exercise mindset, personal development, and executing life with conscious intention. If your goal is to look, feel, and be strong and experience transformation from the inside out, you, my friend are in the right place. Thank you for tuning in, now let’s jump into today’s episode.
Amber B 0:48
Hey, hey, hey welcome back to another episode of biceps after babies radio. I'm your host Amber Brueseke, and today my guest is someone that's a little bit different and I say that because I think for most people in the fitness industry, you wouldn't put the two of us together, you may put us on opposing sides, “opposing sides”. And it's one of the reasons I was so excited when she reached out to me to be able to come on the podcast, because I, I don't think we need to be. I don't think that we need to have this, these opposing sides. And I think the more that we can find common ground with people of the intuitive eating movement of the Hayes movement of the body positivity movement, the more common ground that we can find, which by the way, I think there is a lot more common ground than there is uncommon ground. But I think the more that we're able to find that common ground, the better we're able to move forward and support more women. And that's the goal. I think that's the goal for most women in the fitness industry, whether you are a Health at Every Size proponent or you're you know intuitive eating proponent, we just want to empower women, we want women to be able to live their best life. And the way that we do that may look a little bit different. But the goal is still the same. And I think there's a lot of overlap in a lot of these movements with macro counting, and I'm all for finding that common ground.
Amber B 2:21
If you've been around the podcast a while you've known that I've done a couple of podcasts about macros and intuitive eating. And if you go back to Episode 29, all the way back to Episode 29, I did a podcast called rant macros and intuitive eating and I talk about this concept like that these two things can coexist. These two things can there's a lot of overlap. And then in Episode Number 74, macro counting isn't a diet I talk about how a lot of coaches and people in the macro world have turned macro counting into a diet but that does not mean that it is a diet and so I can't elaborate my thoughts and ideas about the tool that macro counting is and the fact that as a tool, it can be used yes as a diet. But that doesn't mean it has to be used as a diet. And I'm really big in the way that I coach and the way that I teach macros and the way that I use it, to be able to use it as that tool to help build someone up, not create guilt and shame and restriction. So if you haven't listened to those two episodes, Episode 29 and Episode 74, those are really good intro episodes to listen to, to kind of get my perspective and thoughts on where macro counting fits in the whole like fitness industry, and specifically where macros are kinda the way that I teach it fits. So, but moving on to today what we have going on today on the podcast.
Amber B 3:50
My guest today is Elizabeth Dall and she helps women who struggle with emotional eating and dieting and be able to find balance with their food and find that food freedom. And I think it's interesting that both of us use that word food freedom. And you'll hear macro counters use the word food freedom that macro counting allowed them to find food freedom. And then you'll hear the intuitive eating, folks use the word food freedom. And say that, you know, intuitive eating is the way to find food freedom. And I think the common ground here is that ultimately, what we really want is for women to find that food freedom and whether it is through intuitive eating, whether it is through macros, and we're actually going to talk about how those two can kind of work hand in hand. And the ultimate goal is still the same. It is being able to find that freedom with food, being able to free up your mind space, so that it's not all about restriction. It's not all about guilt. It's not all about shame. It is about a healthy, balanced relationship with food and with your body. And so Elizabeth and I, we share that goal, like that's where we want you to get to. Now we may have different methods. We may have different ways that we get you there, but that's the ultimate goal. And so we have already had a really good conversation and I'm really excited for you to listen to it. Because again, most people would look at us and be like, Oh, yeah, but they're on like opposite sides of the spectrum. And what we did during this episode is we found a lot more common ground than the uncommon ground. And I think the more that we have these types of conversations with people who maybe see the world a little differently, or have a different perspective, it is so incredibly valuable, we don't have to make other people wrong to make ourselves right. And that is what I think we need more of, and especially in the fitness industry, where I feel like as of late, it's an us versus them mentality. And it doesn't have to be that way. It doesn't have to be us versus them. It can be all of us fighting for women, all of us fighting for you being able to have the best experience, and live your best life together. Like we can do that together. So I'm really excited for you to listen to this episode. So we're gonna hop right into it with my episode with Elizabeth Dall.
Amber B 5:59
Alright, I would like to welcome Elizabeth Dall to the podcast. Hey, Elizabeth, how are you doing?
Elizabeth D. 6:04
I'm doing well. And I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for having me.
Amber B 6:07
Me too, I think we're gonna have a really excellent conversation. And I'm really excited to be able to share it with my audience because I was telling you before we hit record, that I feel like our worlds often are at war with each other. And we both agree that they don't have to be. And so I'm really excited. You reached out to me about coming on the podcast, and I will have to tell you that I have people reach out to me all the time, all the time wanting to be on the podcast, and most of the time, it's like an immediate no. But when you reached out to me, and I looked at what you were about and how you were talking and the ideas that you had to bring on the podcast, I was like, heck yes. Like I so want to be able to have this conversation. So I'm just really grateful for you to be able to come on and to be able to kind of blend our two worlds. So before we dive into all of the juicy stuff that we're going to talk about, can you just give us a little bit of introduction if somebody is brand new to you, who are you? What do you do and how do you help women?
Elizabeth D. 7:01
Yes. Okay, so I am Elizabeth and I am an exercise physiologist as well as a health coach, a wellness coach, and I help women who are fed up with dieting, make peace with food and be able to reach their goals without feeling like they have to go on that next diet and all of that. So that's what I do. I own A Woman of Wellness and I help teach these women that we can have a happy relationship with food and still reach our goals, and not feel like we have to be stuck in this cycle of dieting and frustration with food. And so that is why I think this conversation is so important because it's important to have a balance of both this freedom and also recognizing that there are ways that healthy foods can balance a healthy lifestyle.
Amber B 7:02
Yes, awesome. And this is why like maybe you're listening to this and you're like, well, you guys have like totally opposing viewpoints right? Like Elizabeth teaching about like this healthy relationship with food that doesn't involve dieting that doesn't involve this constant like, necessarily, you know, trying to get thinner and like jumping from diet to diet to do so. And, you know, Amber talks about macro counting and being able to, like, use macros in order to achieve your goals. You know, how are these women like coming on a podcast and being able to talk about this in a way that is productive and that you're able to like, see both sides. So when you talk about a relationship with food, and I think this word gets thrown around a lot, right, like having a healthy relationship with food, finding food freedom, right? And of course, that's going to mean something different to every single person. But when we talk about food freedom, or when we talk about a healthy relationship with food, how are you defining that or what are you hoping that women are able to achieve in terms of them and their relationship with food
Elizabeth D. 8:49
Yeah relationship with food, it was formed when we were born, right? If we think about our connection with food, it was there from that moment, we took our first feed, and so what I want the women to understand is having a relationship with food is a good thing. It's a normal thing. And sometimes we want to separate ourselves from food or feel like, you know, we don't have anything to do with it, or it's not a big deal or anything like that. But what I want to teach is that there are a possibility and a hope for a good relationship with food. And what happened as we got older and as we grew up, we were told different things about food, we were told different things about our bodies is different than what they were supposed to be and what she looked like then what you know, the media said we should be and so we turn to food to kind of change our body. And so that's where this negative relationship with food came in. And so we're going around with this painful relationship with food, I guess you'd say. And what I'm here to suggest is that we can enjoy food. We can look forward to food, it can be a happy part of our life, it doesn't have to be a neutral part, it can be enjoyable. And so that's kind of the path that we want to take is looking at your relationship with food. Is it in this negative mindset because of the things that you taught as you grew up, and you learned about dieting and all those things? But when we shift and we look at the way that we can see food in this positive light, it makes food enjoyable, it makes something is something that we can look forward to and be happy about instead of fear or dread.
Amber B 10:35
Yeah, so good. Will you elaborate a little bit more? Sometimes I feel with women, and especially with things that we've grown up with all our lives, sometimes we're like a fish in the water. We don't really think about the water that's around us and because we just don't know any different, right? So what would you say? If somebody is looking at their, you know, hearing what you're saying and they're thinking about their personal relationship with food. Can you give us some examples of maybe what would constitute maybe something that a woman might experience if she has more of a negative relationship with food versus a more positive one so that our listeners can kind of self identify maybe where they're at on the spectrum and what is possible for them in the future?
Elizabeth D. 11:16
Yeah, so one of the things that I like to mention is diet mentality or diet talk. And some of these things include all or nothing eating, you're either all in or you're all out. You are doing perfectionistic eating, you're trying to be perfect, or you're completely off, you know, going crazy. You're either restricting or you're binging. And so these kinds of behaviors, is what we call being in the diet mentality. And we're stuck because we can't find the balance with food because we're either looking at food as like, I should eat this or I shouldn't eat that or, I don't know how to find the balance with this or that because I was told I was supposed to do it this way, or this way. has never worked for me. And so if you can tap into the stories that you tell yourself about food, you can identify if it's a negative relationship with food. You can find yourself stuck in a bit of a cycle where you're doing the same thing you're trying to get better, and then you've “fail”, and you're trying to get better and you get in this cycle of, I want to do better, I want to be perfect, I want to eat the right things. And then we get frustrated because we get stuck. And so that's a really good way to identify if you're feeling stuck in your relationship with food.
Amber B 12:35
Awesome. Yeah, and I'm sure a lot of women can relate to that idea of the diet mentality and I will say that I totally agree with you and that is something that I see a lot in my clients, especially ones who have gone through a lot of dieting in the past, is they tend to then bring that past and that history, even over into macro counting and start to like ask what are the rules and you know, what, how close do I have to hit my macros? And like what if you know, what if I don't hit my macros? Or what if I go over and like they bring that perfectionistic or that all or nothing mentality, that idea of like, there are a right and a wrong way to do it into macro counting. And what I've talked a lot about on my podcast before is that just because some women bring that into macro counting does not mean that's what macro counting is. And that in the way that I coach it and the way I teach it, it moves you far away from that, because I agree with what Elizabeth is saying that this diet mentality of like there's a right way and there's a wrong way, there's good food and there's bad food, very black and white thinking is exactly what is causing so many women to get frustrated and to struggle. And it's almost like you're talking about this continuum, and we just find people on extremes, right? It's like good, bad, right, wrong. This is the way to do it. This isn't the way to do it. And when you sit on those extremes, you feel like you're being swung back and forth. And what I think you're kind of offering to women is this idea that like we tend to default to the extremes, but what could it look like if we moved towards the middle? And so, in your opinion, if a woman is experiencing those extremes right now, and she wants to move more towards the middle, whether, you know, some of the first steps that she can take to start to maybe improve step by step, that relationship that she currently has with food?
Elizabeth D. 14:16
Okay, first I knew this was going to be a good discussion. And now I'm even more excited. Right in the pendulum. And this is where I talk to every single one of my students about is if we picture a pendulum, right? where you talk about swinging, and you're right, so what happens and you can even visualize as, like a tug of war where you end up either on the extreme side of dieting, the restriction, the rules, all of those things, and then you swing and you go freedom and no responsibility and all these things and we don't, it's just like they're constantly pulling against each other. So I love that you brought that up. And that's exactly what I think both of us are trying to explain is that there is this happy middle and how do we get there? Because the story that so many women have is that the way that they've done it is the only way they know. So it's kind of scary. I don't want to honor that like fear of, well, I've never known another way. I've never known how to lose weight if I'm not on a diet. And so it's kind of scary. And I come in and I say, Hey, I'm gonna teach you how to listen to your own body. And you're like, oh, I don't want to do that.
Amber B 15:22
It doesn't work. Yeah. Because they think that listening to their body is what happens when they go to the extreme, but like, that's not what you're saying. You're not saying like, listen to your body, and then go to that other extreme. You're like, there's this middle area.
Elizabeth D. 15:35
Yeah. And so there's a factor of trust in here to say, like, we do this with so many women and it works and it can be scary, but there's a little you have to kind of find a little bit of a seed to plant and to trust that this works, to learn to swing to that middle. And so I would just kind of say, let's talk maybe through some steps to like, take to bring yourself back to that middle.
Elizabeth D. 16:01
The first thing that we want to do is identify those food stories. So I talked a little bit about the diet, talk about the diet mentality earlier, what are the stories that you are creating for yourself that you are believing as true for yourself? I can't eat that because it will make me fat. I can't, I have to be on a diet. That's the only way I won't gain a ton of weight. You know, you've created these stories, and so we don't often recognize them. So the first thing that I say is recognize, start to listen to the stories that you have.
Elizabeth D. 16:37
And then the second thing that we want to do is learn to create new stories or new truths. If you look at that story, you say, Hey, is that the same for everyone? Is that the same for Amber? No, she's doing it this way. And she's successful. And so we can kind of take other people's stories and we can also take some truths about food that like one thing isn't going to change the whole composition of your body, right? It's the accumulation of your relationship with food. So we create new stories, Oh, you know what I can. I know that I can start to listen to my body because Amber and Elizabeth are telling me like, there is a way and I can listen, and you create these new stories.
Elizabeth D. 17:19
And then step number three is always the scary one. Everyone gets kind of mad at me when I say this, but you have to allow all foods back into your life. It is the first step to being able to create the balance that you want. And if you are in a place that's off-limits, that's forbidden, I can't eat that because I'll be out of control with it. You're never going to fully make peace with food. And so I say that with trust in the process, allow food back into your life. And when you do that, then we can start bringing in the discussion of guidelines and things that you can follow with your nutrition.
Amber B 17:59
So good. Yeah. Okay, so I'm gonna repeat those back because I want to really, really highlight what Elizabeth said, for those of you listening. And we're gonna dive deeper into this because Elizabeth just kind of gave you all these things and they're a lot harder than they sound, right? Like each of these steps, we could do like a whole podcast on each of these steps. So step number one is to recognize the diet stories that you're currently telling yourself. And I loved that prompt that you kind of gave off like which foods like or like, which foods are currently off-limits? What are you currently telling yourself when it comes to your body? Or when it comes to the food that you're eating? What are you? What is that inner dialogue that's going on? And so often that inner dialogue happens without us being consciously aware of it. So what Elizabeth is saying is like, we need to start becoming aware of that.
Amber B 18:42
So that number two, we can learn to create new stories. And Elizabeth gave the example of looking outside of yourself to other people, other examples of people who have been able to maybe achieve what you want to achieve and didn't have that restriction. Right. So if you have this idea that like I can't eat carbs, are you able to find people who are able to eat carbs and have the body you want, of course, you can, right so that can help you to start to rewrite some of those stories.
Amber B 19:04
And then number three, which is to allow all those foods back into your life. And I love that you say this kind of a step by step process in that first we have to allow the freedom to be able to eat all foods. And then yeah, once we've like now like discarded that restriction, then we can move to the place of like starting to make choices right and starting to like, have guidelines and like, move towards the goals that we want. But if you don't have if you haven't moved to that space of allowing, like truly allowing all foods, you're not going to be able to effectively move through to having that healthy relationship with food while also achieving the goals that you want, which is exactly what both Elizabeth and I want for you we want you to be able to have both.
Amber B 19:46
So I kind of want to dive a little deeper into each of those if you're game. So step number one is recognizing those diet stories. One of the problems that a lot of people come up against is the stories that they tell themselves the belief that they have formed because they formed them from childhood. They don't appear as beliefs. They appear up here as truisms, right. That's just the way the world is like, I cannot eat carbs or I gain fat. Like, that's just the way it is. I've done that. I've seen that over and over and over many years. So how do we start to identify these stories that we're telling ourselves? Because that is the first step and it actually is a more challenging step than one would think, what are some tips that maybe you have for our listeners to start to identify their own stories that they're telling themselves?
Elizabeth D. 20:32
Yeah, I think probably the most important thing to look at is to say, am I getting the results?
Amber B 20:38
Oh, good. Yes. Love it.
Elizabeth D. 20:42
And if the answer is no, then we know that there's something off and so then we can kind of go backward from that and say, Okay, is there something about this that may not be right? It's okay to question these truisms, right, it's okay to say these have been true for my life, but they're not getting me to where I want to go. And if you can identify some of those things. So let me give you an example. Let's say, you are someone that you're all or nothing, that's a big one, you're either all in or you're completely all off. And so you have told yourself for so long that the only way that you have control over food is when you have a very strict plan to follow. And it works for a little while, usually, right we get, we have a little bit of willpower inside of us and, and so it works for a little bit and then as soon as we like get stressed or tired or life happens, all of a sudden, like that willpower is gone and we are tapping into like nothing, and we swing all the way to the other end of like, give me whatever I can eat, I'm starving. I haven't eaten, I've been restricting. And so you've told yourself that the only way to see success is to follow a diet. But if you look at the results, and you say, Well, what happens when I go on this strict plan and I go on to this all or nothing, it doesn't work out for me in the end. And so that's the identifying of the belief right there. That must be a belief and you can name it. This is something I love to do with my students, too, is like, name it Hey, I know you. You're a food story, And I'm changing my stories, like identifying them. And when they start to come up, like I stabbed one with m&ms. I could not control myself from m&ms, like, I just ate them. And I knew that they couldn't be around because I couldn't control myself around them. And that was a story for me. And I had created the truth of my life. And as soon as I identified that it wasn't serving me, it wasn't helping me, and recognizing that other people can be around m&ms and be just fine. And then I knew that it was a story. And not a truth, not something that I couldn't ever change.
Amber B 23:04
So good. And I think it's like your exercise physiologist background, but it's like, so science-oriented, right? Like, are you getting the result? If so, if A gives a result, keep going, if B, you're not getting the result, like, then there's something there. And that's a lie that a lot of women tell themselves as they're like, well-dieting works or like restricting calories works. But then I always want to come back and be like, it works until it doesn't work, right? It doesn't work long term. And if it did, you wouldn't be here talking to me. And so that's something that I really want you to understand is that if you're listening to this, because you don't have the results that you want, there's something there that is preventing you from getting those results. And so while you may be telling yourself the story that like I have to eat low carb or I have to like go through diets, or I have to whatever restrictions you put up, because, in your mind, you have this idea that that's the only way to get success. You can look in your past and say hey has it worked?, my guess Is if you're listening to this No, which is why we start to have these conversations, right? And I and I love that you're helping them to identify what may be holding them back from those results that we want. Because that's exactly what you and I both want for anybody listening. We just want you to get the results that you want. And if there are things holding you back, then as a coach, we want to help to coach you through those to create those new stories that are going to more successfully support your goals. So that was awesome. I love how you broke that down like recognizing those stories.
Amber B 24:30
And then if we if somebody's listening, they're like, okay, maybe I've identified that I can't eat carbs. Or for example, I had a client just recently who told me that she came into my program with the thought belief that she couldn't eat corn, like corn like she hadn't eaten corn since she was like a child. So that was like her belief. So then how do we learn to recreate those stories that feel like truisms that feel like we have all of this evidence to support it? How do we create new stories that are going to better support the results that we want?
Elizabeth D. 25:00
This is kind of where that, I guess I call it the inside out approach comes where we start to tap into our own bodies. And so we could identify like, Why? Where did the story about corn come from?
Amber B 25:16
Elizabeth D. 25:16
Was it, did you eat it and you didn't feel good, that's a different story, then you were told that you shouldn't eat it. And this is actually a really good example. There's an example of an intuitive eating book about a woman that wanted cornbread, and she was told she could not have cornbread. And all day long. She tried to satisfy the craving for cornbread by eating everything else. And at the end of the night, she still wanted the cornbread. And she just ate it and realized if she had just eaten it, it would have satisfied her from the beginning. And so if we can tap into this, this is exactly where we start to tap into the inner wellness, our inside wellness. What kinds of stories are serving your body versus maybe serving like your brain, right? So she was told maybe she was told that she couldn't eat corn or, or maybe someone was told that they couldn't eat something, but they've never actually experienced it themselves. Versus let's say, like, I have some gluten and dairy sensitivities, and I have had to learn from my body that those things don't really feel that great when I eat them. I can still eat them because I have the food freedom that I want. But I have learned to tap into my body to say, you know what, I know, people are saying carbs are bad or gluten is bad, right? But my decision to not eat gluten has nothing to do with diet talk. It has to do with my body. And so if you can start to tap into that kind of story, listen from within. And that's what happens when you allow all foods then you can start listening. Hey, that made me feel better. That didn't make me feel better. Do you know? That's what brings macros into it. I mean, that's most of my background in science. And so when we talk about that, like from a physiological standpoint, those things make you feel better. But we have a behavior side, we have to marry the two, we have to recognize that there's a behavior around food, and there's science in food that fuels your body.
Amber B 27:25
Yeah, so good. And how much more of an empowering story is that when you continue to bring it back where you're talking about when you allow all foods it doesn't mean that you necessarily eat all foods all the time, but it comes that the choice whether or not you eat gluten, or whether or not you eat corn or whether or not you eat Skittles or whatever, it doesn't come from a restriction mentality. It comes from a legit choice of what you want to eat, but it's open to you if you wanted to do that. And that's such a beautiful place because I think we can swing really far to one side and be like all foods are, you know you can eat all food and like, whatever, who cares how it makes you feel. But then there are people like you or people, a lot of people who feel better eating certain foods. And we don't want to bring in this idea that like it's diet mentality or its diet culture that you have said, hey, my body doesn't feel very good eating corn or gluten, so I'm not going to do it. That but that choice for you is coming from an empowered place, not from a place of restriction. And I think, even though the end result may be that you don't eat gluten, to me, the most important thing is where that decision is coming from? Is it coming from a restrictive mentality or a diet, like a diet mentality? Or is it coming from an empowered I can make choices about what feels good for me and my body and what aligns with the results that I want to get and that's, that's where I want you guys to get to that's, that's where I want you to be.
Elizabeth D. 28:47
And that's the happy middle. That's where the pendulum swings in the middle, and it's normal to have, you know when you're all the way on the diet side of the pendulum, it's normal to swing really far. And so we're trying to teach you how we get back to that middle because you're going to be playing tug of war with those for a little bit. And you try to change these stories.
Amber B 29:06
Yeah. So what if there's somebody who's listening who has started to identify, oh my gosh, I feel that way about Skittles or I feel that way about carbs or I feel that way about bread or whatever it is, they started to identify that and then we get to the step three, that you know, just bomb dropped on them that we have to, like, allow all those foods into your life. And for a lot of women, there's the fear that I'm sure you're associated with it, like going into that a feeling like if I allow bread into my life, or if I allow Skittles into my life, I'm just going to binge and I'm just gonna, like, go off the rails and like, how do we start to tiptoe towards that or start to allow those foods into our life with that fear that we have that we're going to lose control.
Elizabeth D. 29:50
Yeah, and you know, you might not like this answer, but you might swing really far to the other side like this is normal and it's, it's absolutely normal for you if you have been restricting so many foods to lose control, okay? And I ask you like, if you feel this way, that is normal. And that's the timeline is different for everyone. I can't sit here and say like, there's a timeline that you would get back to the middle. But it happens. And I want to give you a little example from a client of mine. She used to struggle with ice cream. And if the ice cream was in her freezer, it was always gone. Like she couldn't have it in her house because she would binge on and eat up constantly. And we said, you know, we talked and we said, Okay, it's time to allow this into your life. And she did it and she went out and bought ice cream. And guess what? She ate a lot of ice cream.
Amber B 30:44
Elizabeth D. 30:45
Ate a lot of ice cream and she just kept going and going and going. And then something happened. She realized like the ice cream was no longer off-limits. And this is one of those things where I almost have to say trust. I can't explain what happens exactly because it's going to be different for everyone. But it happens. And it happens for everyone that you get into this place where you know what? I can have the ice cream, I remember she said, I have ice cream sitting in my fridge right now. And I don't even care. And I can eat it whenever I want. I feel really good about that. And she was even like she was losing weight, while the ice cream was still in her freezer. And those are the kind of results that happen when you bring those foods into your life. So I recognize that it's scary, and you probably will binge, because you've had a lot of things off-limits for so long. But eventually, just like you know, when you think about kids and toys like it loses its excitement, and you realize that it can just be on the shelf and you can grab it when you want it. And that's what food freedom is. That's what a happy relationship with food is. But we have to take those hard steps to get there.
Amber B 31:53
Yeah. And I'm grateful that you say that because I think a lot of women experienced that swing and they think oh, no, no, I did something wrong. Right, and what you're saying is like, no, that's actually a manifestation that you're on the path to get to where you want. It's like if you're if you want to go through a mountain, like you have to go through the tunnel, right, and the tunnel gets really dark, and it's really scary and you're like, Am I ever going to come out on the other side? That does not evidence that you should turn around. That's evidence that you should keep going. Because like on the other side of that is being able to find that period of moderation. And for women who've restricted themselves for so long, sometimes it is you who has the pendulum that has to swing to the other side before it can then settle in the middle and you can feel what that moderation actually feels like. But it is, it's a trust and trust thing that you have to experience and go through.
Elizabeth D. 32:39
And if you need hope, just know that there will be a time for guidelines like if you feel scared, know that there can come a point where we can talk about nutrition from an educated and ready standpoint.
Amber B 32:54
Yeah, yeah. And so I'm curious about this because, um, I coach clients, and I use macro counting as a tool in my programs. And I think there's like two lines of thinking sometimes, with macro counters, they feel like macro counting leads them to food freedom. And for other people, they feel like you need to have that food freedom first and then you can go into macro counting. And I've honestly seen it work both ways. So who am I to tell you the exact way that you should do it? But I'm curious from, you know, from your standpoint, and from your educational background and your experience with clients. If one of your clients wants to count macros, what are some things that you want to make sure that they have in place so that they can be successful, both emotionally and physically as they go into that process?
Elizabeth D. 33:44
That's a really good question. I think it's important that they're aware of their own stories so that they can go into it. Because here's the thing I could give you a plan. I shouldn't give anyone a plan and I get you to follow it, you'll get the results like it's science. Right. Like, we know these things, for the most part, we we've got hormones and things, but like, for the most part, if you do A, you'll get B. And but what I learned as my, in my first days as like a personal trainer, and I'd say like you do A, you get B, and they'd be like, well, something came in the middle of that life, you know, I guess, if they can identify the things that are maybe getting in their way, those roadblocks and they can know how to get through them. And these are things that both of us coach through, if they can identify those as roadblocks and not completely like just say, like, I'm giving up, I'm done or whatever, but recognize, like there are going to be roadblocks and your diet talk is going to come up and you have to know how to identify it. If you can recognize that and say okay, I'm going to be working along working on this alongside this. Then they can go together really well.
Amber B 34:56
So good and back to like something that you said that I took a note on. Earlier, you talked about how there's like the science of food, but then there's the behavior side. And I think that's what you're really speaking to here. Is that Yeah, like A equals B, like macros, is a science like that is physiology like it is science base. But just because you say do X and you know, do X and get Y, there's the stuff that happens in the middle. And that's the behavioral stuff. And that isn't fixed by just trying harder. And I that's what I find a lot of my clients, they get into this pattern of thinking, you know, before they work with me, they're like, well, I just have to try harder, like A equals B, I just have to try harder to do A, and then they beat themselves up, and they have the story that like they're never going to be successful. And they're the problem and they need more motivation. And they need more willpower when actually it's because we haven't addressed what's in the middle there and what you talk about as the behavior side or as the life that's going on in between A and B. And so I love that you talked about that because I think it is the missing piece for so many women and it's why some women can count macros, and it works. Some women can count matters and it doesn't. It's not because, like the science is there, but it's the in-between the science that is missing for a lot of women.
Elizabeth D. 36:10
Yeah. And you know, I gotta put you on the spot. Are you perfect at your macros all the time?
Amber B 36:15
No, and I actually coach my clients to not because I like that is all or nothing thinking and that sets you up for that long that's that problem with having that yo-yo diet mentality and so I actually really encourage my clients to like not necessarily always hit their macros like to look at it as a guideline, but ultimately is a choice and you can choose. You're an adult woman, you can choose to go over your macros anytime you want. Yeah, so I get on my soapbox about that because I see this thing that is science-based and like works for so many women, and then I see coaches take it and they use it as another diet and it really irks my tater. When I see something that can be so like empowering for women, and then I see it just boiled down to another diet of like, here are numbers. You follow them if you don't follow them. We'll get to you just need to try harder. That really, really irks me. So…
Elizabeth D. 37:04
And I think people think that just because we're coaches, we're perfect at it too. And yeah, I'm really very clear and saying like, yeah, I try not to eat gluten dairy. But guess what, I did have a piece of cake the other day like, I am also normal and that's okay. And you're right. Like, it isn't an educated decision. It's a choice. I'm going to go back down the dieting spiral with just that one choice.
Amber B 37:28
Yep. And my listeners know that I don't count macros anymore. Like I'm very open with saying that I use it as a tool to be able to achieve results and to achieve transformations that I wanted to put on muscle to add strength to like, get lean, like for all those things. And what I learned from that now I can apply to my life, but I don't track, I don't count my macros, I don't weigh my food, and I don't need to because I have that experience of doing it. And I can use that knowledge to make empowered choices right now for where I want to be in my life. And that's what I want my clients to get to. If you're listening like that is what I want you to come away with, I don't want you to count macros for the rest of your life. I want you to use it and understand it and be able to allow it to empower you to make more informed choices and decisions.
Elizabeth D. 38:10
I see. You know, it's funny, I used to tell my clients I used to do one on one I don't anymore, but I used to tell them I don't want to see you for the rest of your life. I want to give you the tools. I want you to have it looked at. Yeah. And I want you to go and say I don't need you anymore. Like that is the biggest compliment for me and says I don't need you anymore because I've got it figured out.
Amber B 38:28
Yes, so good. I had one of my clients once, I like to share this because it's such a good step by step and I'm sure like your clients kind of feel the same way because you want the same end result you want them to coach themselves. And she's like at first it was like you coaching me and then I started hearing you in my head like you were coaching me in my head and then eventually it turned to me coaching me in my head and like I get chills when I hear that because that's what we want as coaches we want it doesn't need to be me coaching you like I want it to be you coaching yourself. In your head and that's such a more empowered place for you to be addressing. And you know, your journey and like your life is from that empowered place of like you are your best coach. And so I'm curious for you, what are some of your current health and fitness goals? Like what are you working on?
Elizabeth D. 39:17
Hmm, what am I working on? I am one of the things that I just love to do. We live 15 minutes away from the mountains. So I love to trail run. So my goal always is that I can walk out the door and hop on any trail that I want and go run it and that is like number one goal and I've always had a goal in the back of my head to do a pull-up. Get them actively working on it so you can help me out with that.
Amber B 39:45
Oh my gosh, I have a free pull up program is a six-week series but it's their first pull up. It's at www.bicepsafterbabies.com/pull-up. So oh my gosh, but you bring up a really good point, Elizabeth because there are so many women who are here that want that goal and you are so honest about saying, but I'm not actually working towards it, right? I have this idea, but I'm not actually taking the steps to make it happen. Like, which is fine, like no, no shade at all like, but if you do have a goal and pullups is your goal, it is something that you have to actively work on. you're not going to just accidentally be able to do a pull-up. So if you want a six-week program, I definitely have that. But yeah, that's exciting. I love, I don't love trail running, but I love that you love trail running. I love that you have even trails close to you. I mean, I live in Southern California, like it's like concrete as far as the eye can see. So
Elizabeth D. 40:32
yeah, don't put me on a bike though. So I'm like, I'm kind of the opposite. If you put me on a bike, I'm totally out.
Amber B 40:37
Like, I'm out. Peace out. That's so awesome. Um, so last, you know, the last question. I am curious. And I'm kind of bringing back some of the things that we talked about maybe at the beginning of this world of intuitive eating and maybe this world of macro counting and oftentimes we see on social media of feeling like both can't coexist like one has to be the right way to do it. And if macro counting is right, then intuitive eating is wrong. And if intuitive eating is right, and then macro counting is wrong. And I hope that what we've shared today and what listeners took away is that there's a way for us to bridge these two worlds, they don't have to be against each other, that they can actually work in harmony to be able to help you towards the goals that you have. And so I'm curious, what has your experience been with the two worlds? And what would you say is the bridge that can bridge the two where we're both on board with the same thing?
Elizabeth D. 41:40
That is a great question. And one of the reasons I reached out to you is because I feel like the way that you teach it is, is in that way, you know, bridging that gap already, you know, and so what I would probably say is that I think it's important to go in again, go inside and look at what you're wanting out of your life. How do you want to show up for your life? And I always say I teach intuitive eating with a twist, right? Because I'm, I do believe that it's okay to have goals and it's okay to want to change, it's okay body changes are a good goal. But the way that we approach it has to be the right way or you'll never be happy with it. There are tons of women who have lost weight and it's not a happy weight loss. They still love their bodies. Right? And so if we can, when we think about bridging that gap, it's looking at Okay, how can I work on healing that relationship and identifying my stories that are in the diet talk, and then how can I bring in science and recognize that eating macro-friendly is the way that my body is going to show up the best for me. So if you, I guess that's kind of like maybe I'm fumbling through the answer. But basically, it's saying, How can I show up best for this world?” And I know that I have to have good behaviors around food. And I also have to get the right kinds of foods that physiologically fuel me to do the things that I want to do to show up. And that's why I eat the foods that fuel my body so that I can go and hit those trails anytime I want. I don't have to train for them. Because I daily train for them, right? There are things that we can train for that we have to push through and work hard. But there's also this level of what life do I want to live? And how can I use my behaviors toward food and the science of food and put them together so that I can live my best life and show up in the best way?
Amber B 43:53
Oh my gosh, so many amens so many hallelujahs are like so, so good, and I am Yeah, I don't really have anything else to add to that other than like a big fat, amen. So if someone's wanting to connect with you, Elizabeth, if they're like, heck yes, I want to learn more, I would want to connect with her online or dm or whatever. How is the best way for people to connect with you and find you?
Elizabeth D. 44:17
Yes, so I'm most active on Instagram, I'm @awomanofwellness, and my website, I have a free course that helps you overcome emotional eating. So if you really struggle with emotional eating, it's a really great mini-course that dives into dealing with your emotion and working through food. And I also have a full food freedom program where I help women go like get away from that pendulum swing and find that happy middle. So all of it is on awomanofwellness.com as well.
Amber B 44:49
Awesome. And we will link all of those up in the show notes so that you can find and connect with Elizabeth. Thank you so much, Elizabeth, for coming on and for sharing with my audience and for helping me to bridge this gap a little bit between our two worlds and show that, you know, hey, we kind of want the same thing. And we really just want you to be successful. And I'm just really grateful that you are willing to take the time and come and share it with my audience.
Elizabeth D. 45:12
Yes, thank you for having me. It was so fun.
Amber B 45:14
Amber B 45:17
Wasn't that awesome? I really hope that you enjoyed that episode and listened to Elizabeth and I talk about two things that people sometimes pit against each other like the macros crew. It's like the dieters over here, diet culture. And over here there are intuitive eaters. And like, I can't see eye to eye and we're just arguing over who's the right one. Like it doesn't have to be that way. And what I loved about Elizabeth and what she was willing to share and come on the podcast and talk about is the similarities between the things that we do with our clients, and how we are able to get results, and how the end goal of getting you to the place to feel freedom, to feel like you can create the life that you want is really the end destination and the end goal. So I'm really grateful to Elizabeth for coming on the podcast and I hope that we will have more of these types of conversations with people who may believe differently than us may have a different perspective. I think the more that we can build these types of bridges, the more women we can end up helping, and that's the real end destination that we really want.
Amber B 46:21
That wraps up this episode of biceps after babies radio. I'm Amber now go out and be strong because remember my friend, you can do anything.
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